mroberon1972:
Actually, the number of magic using people does not have as much an impact on this as you would think. Also, keep in mind differing worlds have differing percentages of magic in thier world. I was only giving an example from my worlds. Please excuse the lack of information I gave.
That's okay. I understand that different campaign worlds have different levels of magic (indeed, my campaign worlds tend to have above-average levels of magic-users), but I tend to argue using standards when on the boards. It stops silly arguments about the exact numbers (though, of course, part of my argument is about exact numbers...hohum
)
No, It does not. It never had anything to do with the good of the people. It has to do with a wizard who wants to crank out 5 breastplates per day as a constant source of income. He gives it to someone (as powerful people tend to do... Elvis cars anyone?), and he begins to profit from it. Or the mage has someone manage it for a wage. You get the idea.
Well, I believe some else suggested this, not you. However, on the other hand, in order to crank out the breastplates, he'll need to be at level 11 or so. This means that such a caster is unavailable to any settlement short of a large city: in essence, they are very rare! Furthermore, a mage of this level can probably find himself employed far more lucratively: either creating *magical* items (which are distributed to a very narrow section of the population) or by casting other spells (e.g. charging nobles for teleports).
Where did I quote this? Or is it someone else?
Don't worry, it's not you...
Arcana casters must cast 1 spell per day for the public good except for those who drain xp
(jasper).
Your argument says we could have never developed one ourselves, since you seem to be saying that they cannot develop one? Also keep in mind another issue: Just because we developed our way (history) does not mean they have to follow the exact same model of development. We did not have living gods and humans weilding magic. Still, all humans tend toward progress as the norm.
Not at all! What I am saying, however, is that many of the factors that are required for an 'industrial' revolution are not in place in a standard medieval DnD setting. Most of the factors mentioned evolved in the 16th-18th centuries. Of course a DnD world could become industrial, but not given the standard parameters in the near 'future'. As for alternative development, this is an interesting theory. Unfortunately, we only have our own histories to look back on, and only our own theories to work with, and at current, the consensus amongst economic historians in that these factors are required. Of course, they haven't commissioned studies on the effects of magic...
I agree and more. Magic will NEVER bring advancement of technology. PEOPLE do this. Magic is just a set of natural laws of the world. Atomic energy is possible and good (please, no fights over this... It's off the topic.) but can only be made by very powerful groups with very special knowledge. They still happened, even with human nature.
A very astute point.
"God, I love a good argument!"
Don't we all
?
herald:
Though I disagree with mroberon's arguments, yours are flawed moreso. My disagreement with Mr O is not that it is impossible, but that it is an inaccurate portrayal of attitudes and reactions at that time, in the same way my Murlynd's Spoon Revolution was flawed (and deliberately so).
Simply put, mroberon is using the Wall of Iron spell (which has Instantaneous duration) to create a big mass of iron, then using the Fabricate spell (also Instantaneous) to make things out of that iron. There is no logical reason why this is not possible; rather that 'couldn't', it is a case of 'wouldn't'. Hope this clarifies things for you...I know these threads can get heated, and I'm hoping that hearing this from someone broadly agreeing with your standpoint allows you to accept his (perfectly viable) example.
Edit: Dammit, oberon, why do you post before me and invalidate my points whilst I'm still typing them!
Well, rather than re-type, I'll just say that such an item (the breastplate-manufacturer) could exist, but the prohibitive cost of producing such an item (not to mention employing an outsider) probably makes it not worthwhile; and of course, in those three months, the aforesaid wizard can be employed lucratively in activities described above.
