Skill list guess

[Celebrim]

Really, if you are going to drop the skill list down to about 18 skills, it seems to me that you could just reasonably do away with it altogether and just use ability checks for everything.

 

[Stalker0]

My guess would be that athletics combines jump/climb/AND SWIM

It makes more sense than balance, as all three skills are strength based while balance is dex based.

Balance and Tumble might be combined.

 

[Oldtimer]

Really, if you are going to drop the skill list down to about 18 skills, it seems to me that you could just reasonably do away with it altogether and just use ability checks for everything.

Because there is no real difference between the numbers 6 and 18...?

 

[theredrobedwizard]

Arcana
Acrobatics (Balance, Tumble, Escape Artist)
Athletics (Swim, Climb, Jump)
Deception (Bluff, Forgery, Intimidate, Disguise)
Diplomacy (Diplomacy, Perform)
Dungeoneering
Endurance (Concentration)
Heal
Insight (Sense Motive, Appraise)
Initiative
Nature (K:Nat, Survival, Handle Animal)
Sleight of Hand (Open Lock, Pick Pocket, Disable Device)
Perception (Spot, Listen, Search)
Religion
Ride
Stealth
Streetwise
X?

-TRRW

 

[Celebrim]

Because there is no real difference between the numbers 6 and 18...?

No difference? No, of course there is a difference. Because there is little real difference between an ability check and a skill check if there are only 3-4 skills per ability and all classes automatically increase in skills at a fixed rate. If the design goal is to handle skill challenges in a clean, quick, gamist centered way with a minimal amount of math, why bother with a handle of arbitrary skill distinctions in a class based system anyway? You could get reasonably close to the same effect by doing something like, 'Fighters get a +5 bonus on all strength based ability checks', 'Rogues get a +5 bonus on all dexterity based ability checks', and so forth. Switch over 'trained uses' to class abilities, and your done.

 

[Plane Sailing]

You bother because it gives a point of differentiation for characters.

If you just used ability checks, how do you differentiate between the riding ability of the horse nomads of mongo vs the generic townsman?

Skills are the easiest way to handle it IMO.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

I'd like knowledge of *creatures* to be a seperate, specific Knowledge. As it is, having knowledge of say, Religion doesn't make sense to know about the Undead, as many undead have nothing to do with religion/religious rights etc, and many religions have nothing to do with the undead either (as a general rule)

Thus, Knowledge: Monster Lore is an idea.

As a point, a major difference between D&D and Star Wars, is that knowledge in a fantasy world is very hard to come by. Hence, sages etc are valuable people. There's no internet, no encylopedias etc. If you wish to learn a craft, you have to do so by experience and working under a master. What few libraries there are, you have to beg and buy the rights to peruse, and most will just be a a hundred or so tomes in a lord's keep.

So, keep Knowledge and craft skills split up a fair bit

 

[Bryntryst]

Thievery (open locks, disable traps, sabotage device, sleight of hand)

I object to the insinuation that anyone trying to unlock a door, disable a device or slight a hand is labeled as a thief and has illicit intent. I officially throw my guess of 'roguery' into the ring.

 

[Woas]

This is rhetorical, but how would you differentiate between an elite Mongolian horseman an a country-bumpkin?
It would be that you would just dump a bunch of skill points into ride for the horseman and put those skill points into profession: bumpkin for the other. But really both have the same potential. If two characters both have 10 ranks in ride and you say "this guy is an elite Mongolian horse archer. And this one is a knight. Who happen to dump all his skill points into ride last level cause he finally got a horse." then the difference is really just dressing. They both can do the same "stuff" with the horse.

Going with an ability check route (not that I'm a huge fan of straight ability checks...) you could do several things to ensure that the elite Mongolian horse archer is really really good on horseback and other characters just won't be on the same level, ever, and really define the character on his "elite Mongolian horseman-ness".
For example, say Dex was the ability you would normally use for a horse riding check one could use feats or even 'character background' traits during character creation to ensure that anytime that character had to make a dex check for horse riding they were granted a) extra/unique abilities b) a bonus to the check c) a free "take 10 even when rushed or threatened" deal or d) all of some of the above.

So I can see the merits of just ditching the skills. Not that it'll happen but skill points straight out as they are now don't really make characters that much different. You could take those ideas I exampled and just apply them to skills as they are now as ability checks are not particularly any better than skills or vice versa.

You bother because it gives a point of differentiation for characters.

If you just used ability checks, how do you differentiate between the riding ability of the horse nomads of mongo vs the generic townsman?

Skills are the easiest way to handle it IMO.

 

[JohnSnow]

So my list now looks like this:

Acrobatics
Arcana
Climb
Decipher Script
Diplomacy
Disguise
Dungeoneering
Escape Artist
Handle Animal
Heal
History
Insight
Intimidate
Open Lock/Sleight of Hand/Disable Device
Perception
Perform
Religion
Ride
Speak Language
Stealth
Streetwise
Survival
Swim

That brings us down to 22, which is the right ballpark. Things which don't "feel right" now, given those changes, include:

Decipher Script
Speak Language

Thoughts? Have I missed anything? Would you interpret the info differently?

Looks pretty good. I think you could handle Decipher Script and Speak Language with a single skill to understand writing and language you don't know. Let's call it "Linguistics." We know there's a skill called "Nature" from the Elf writeup, and I think one could cover both Handle Animal and the former Knowledge (Nature) under there.

That said, I think the best name for the combination of Sleight of Hand/Disable Device/Open Lock is Manipulation, as many others have suggested. One could argue it could cover use rope as well. I'd say that sleight of hand should be covered by stealth, but...