D&D 5E Skyrim supplement for D&D 5e

[Ovinomancer]

Your opinion is fair, you're entitled to it. Also, since I have no idea who you are or what your product is I'm happy that you will act. But acting does not mean that in any given case, you won't have your backside handed to you.



Sure, and if it's in poor light and you can prove that your sales were affected in any way, you will be compensated. If you can't, you won't. I think I covered that with my original post.



Very true, but in order to sue someone you have to take proper steps to best make your case. If taking those steps doesn't result in your rights being upheld then I'd guess that whomever you'd be annoyed at, didn't do anything wrong.

I think it's really important to state that just because an artist feels wronged, doesn't mean the law has been violated. I completely get the vitriol around the discussion of IP because people pour their souls into things but no one legally cares about the work if there's no documented financial loss or risk of future loss due to reputation of the artist being effected.

This is categorically false. In order for compensatory damages to be awarded, yes, financial harm must be shown. But for injunctive relief, only violation need be shown. And, no financial harm needs to be shown for punitive fines to be assessed. Assuming that you can freely use IP for your own derivative work that you release to the public is a great way to earn some punitive fines.

A casual look at how service providers treat DCMA requests should show you how easy it is to be held liable for even non-commercial use.

 

[CapnZapp]

This is categorically false. In order for compensatory damages to be awarded, yes, financial harm must be shown. But for injunctive relief, only violation need be shown. And, no financial harm needs to be shown for punitive fines to be assessed. Assuming that you can freely use IP for your own derivative work that you release to the public is a great way to earn some punitive fines.

A casual look at how service providers treat DCMA requests should show you how easy it is to be held liable for even non-commercial use.

This is a prime example of what the OP very probably don't want in his thread.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Kobold Boots]

This is a prime example of what the OP very probably don't want in his thread.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

Probably very accurate and for starting the tangent I apologize. However, since we've had a few more people chat about legalities from their own perspectives I want one more post to respond before I put it away out of respect to the OP.

I want to pull the goal posts back to what my original points were with some additional clarity.

1. There is a big difference between what the law is and enforcing it.
2. Regardless of how the law is enforced, it won't be unless it's cost-effective for the plaintiff to ask.
3. Cost-effective is situational.

So in the case of a fan creating a derivative work from Skyrim, which is completely labeled all over the place as Skyrim with no payment being taken and having a limited distribution (because even though this site is well-trafficed the thread will eventually end up on a page that isn't) there's not much risk here and not much loss. Bethesda may well do more damage to their rep by attempting to enforce their copyright than they'd gain by just letting it go. (WotC covering themselves by not allowing it to be posted makes sense on their side)

So to the person that took the time to "teach" me about copyright -
To the person that talked about injunctive relief and punitive damages -
To anyone else I missed that mentioned that financial things didn't matter -

Thank you, but in making your points you were having a conversation that I wasn't. I respect everything stated; but lets get back to the initial point of the thread.

 

[robus]

This extract from this Wikipedia page is relevant I think: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_with_fan_fiction

Fair use is assessed on a case-by-case basis. While such genres as parody and criticism are enumerated by statute and case law as presumptively fair uses of a copyrighted work, fan fiction has not historically been recognized by U.S. courts as necessarily constituting these or other enumerated fair use genres, and thus neither falls categorically inside nor categorically outside the presumptive boundaries of fair use. Works of fanfiction are more likely to constitute fair use if they are "transformative" with respect to the original work, if they are non-commercial, if they appropriate relatively little of the original work, and/or if they do not tend to detract from the potential market for or value of the original work.[9]

I think it would be reasonable to consider the work transformative, it’s not taken any if the source code (likely the highest concern of Bethesda a software company), and any art is a tiny fraction of the overall work.

I’m not a lawyer but things are much greyer than some here are claiming IMHO.

 

[Tracy Leigh]

How did you get it to download as a pdf? When I clicked on "get pdf", it just took me to another tab with a non-pdf and brought up the Print option.

I actually had to print to a file (checkbox option on my print window), and then it gave me the option to save it. However, it didn't seem to save correctly, leaving off the bottom half inch of the page... So I'm going to try again.

I did like what was in there, just couldn't see all of it.

Tracy

 

[CM]

In your OP, the hyperlink takes you to the monster manual only, while the display text shown differs, and takes you to the handbook. You should split these up to two separate links.

Enjoyed the monster selection, but found some pages don't render correctly in my chrome browser. For example, the stat blocks for the Draugr Scourge and Giant Frostbite Spider are pushed over to a 3rd column and almost entirely hidden outside the right margin. Reducing the page zoom to 75% fixed the issue. PDF also renders correctly.

Still have yet to go through the handbook but like what I see so far.

 

[Tracy Leigh]

Absolutely correct. Performing the operation in Chrome also eliminated the formatting errors that I got trying to save from Firefox.

Thank you kindly!

Tracy

 

[Ovinomancer]

This is a prime example of what the OP very probably don't want in his thread.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

Ah, Capn, thread policing again based on what you think other people want.

Probably very accurate and for starting the tangent I apologize. However, since we've had a few more people chat about legalities from their own perspectives I want one more post to respond before I put it away out of respect to the OP.

I want to pull the goal posts back to what my original points were with some additional clarity.

1. There is a big difference between what the law is and enforcing it.
2. Regardless of how the law is enforced, it won't be unless it's cost-effective for the plaintiff to ask.
3. Cost-effective is situational.

So in the case of a fan creating a derivative work from Skyrim, which is completely labeled all over the place as Skyrim with no payment being taken and having a limited distribution (because even though this site is well-trafficed the thread will eventually end up on a page that isn't) there's not much risk here and not much loss. Bethesda may well do more damage to their rep by attempting to enforce their copyright than they'd gain by just letting it go. (WotC covering themselves by not allowing it to be posted makes sense on their side)

This is... idiotic. Not to be mean, but this is really, really, really bad advice. Bethesda has a great deal riding on it's IP right now -- the Skyrim Online game is their core product, and it's the IP of the setting that is selling it. They also have a lawyers on retainer who will file lawsuits against you for the low, low price of what Bethesda is already paying them anyway, so it's zero cost to Bethesda to initiate a lawsuit against you for stealing their valuable IP. Further, porting that IP into a competing format (and tabletop gaming competes in the same demographic as the Bethesda products for your time and dollars) is something they'd care about. Finally, assuming that some nebulous harm to their reputation with people that are 1)clueless about IP and 2) willing to steal it because of 1 is just about the weakest concept of safety from lawsuit I can imagine.

Granted, the first step here would likely be a C&D, which, if followed, would then be ignored, but the assumptions you've made about how safe it is to steal IP from Bethesda are just straight up wrong and dangerous.

So to the person that took the time to "teach" me about copyright -
To the person that talked about injunctive relief and punitive damages -
To anyone else I missed that mentioned that financial things didn't matter -

Thank you, but in making your points you were having a conversation that I wasn't. I respect everything stated; but lets get back to the initial point of the thread.

It's cute that you think that you being so wholly wrong and providing bad legal advice that has a strong likelihood of getting people sued if they follow it is something that you can hand-wave away by saying that such corrections aren't what you'd prefer to talk about. You are wrong, and should really stop offering people bad legal advice.

 

[Kobold Boots]

Ah, Capn, thread policing again based on what you think other people want.


This is... idiotic. Not to be mean, but this is really, really, really bad advice. Bethesda has a great deal riding on it's IP right now -- the Skyrim Online game is their core product, and it's the IP of the setting that is selling it. They also have a lawyers on retainer who will file lawsuits against you for the low, low price of what Bethesda is already paying them anyway, so it's zero cost to Bethesda to initiate a lawsuit against you for stealing their valuable IP. Further, porting that IP into a competing format (and tabletop gaming competes in the same demographic as the Bethesda products for your time and dollars) is something they'd care about. Finally, assuming that some nebulous harm to their reputation with people that are 1)clueless about IP and 2) willing to steal it because of 1 is just about the weakest concept of safety from lawsuit I can imagine.

Granted, the first step here would likely be a C&D, which, if followed, would then be ignored, but the assumptions you've made about how safe it is to steal IP from Bethesda are just straight up wrong and dangerous.



It's cute that you think that you being so wholly wrong and providing bad legal advice that has a strong likelihood of getting people sued if they follow it is something that you can hand-wave away by saying that such corrections aren't what you'd prefer to talk about. You are wrong, and should really stop offering people bad legal advice.

1. I am not an attorney
2. I am not offering anyone any advice. This is where you're going wrong with your approach and others have as well. I am however, offering my own experience/thoughts.
3. I am not about to support those thoughts or experience by stating that I'm this or that or the other thing. What I do in life has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or gaming.

So I think that we need to end this now, and I'll just go about my way of adding annoying personalities (however well respected and intentioned) to my ignore list. I'd suggest you do the same with me if I'm that dangerous and idiotic.

(edit: your comment on "hand waving" is rather precious. I often times wonder how much people read exactly what they're replying to in context before they start typing.)

Be well
KB

 

[Sadras]

@Mistwell, @Sacrosanct and @Ovinomancer
1. Our group has an Obsidian Portal site for our campaigns, from time to time I as DM dress it up with pretty pics from the net, while the players poach pics for their characters.
2. Furthermore I might take entire excerpts from modules or campaign settings from WotC/TSR material and include them for reading purposes for our play group.
3. Lastly, our Obsidian Portal page is marked as public.

Where are we falling afoul or at risk?
I'm merely asking because I imagine hundreds of other groups out there are doing the same - wouldn't something like Obsidian Portal be at risk with all these copyright infringements?