Smite as the signature move of Paladins.

[DogBackward]

So what is your stand against Druids [MENTION=50642]DogBackward[/MENTION]?

No Druid at all, because the wizard can accomplish all of their spells and polymorphs spells?

I'm not entirely sure, actually. I think that the nature spells of the Druid might warrant its own class. You're obviously being facetious, but there's a big difference between "The Cleric can do everything a Paladin can do." and "The Wizard can do one of the things a Druid can do."

 

[DogBackward]

Lay on Hands, Auras, Smite, immunity to fear, and detect evil

Cure spells, Protection From/Magic Circle Against Evil, they already have Smite, Remove Fear, they already have Detect Evil.

clerics never had this abilities before, these was discovered because of a paladin.

Again, what happened before has no bearing on what happens now.

if WOTC said that this version will united all of the players, then by NOT publishing a class called Paladin, i think they will fail that goal.

There will be a Paladin. It just won't be its own class.

 

[hafrogman]

"The Cleric can do everything a Paladin can do."

Yeah, I think as usual, the problem with the paladin is the cleric more than the fighter, at least from what we can see of the classes so far.

The battle cleric has all armor proficiencies, one martial weapon proficiency (deity's favored weapon?), spells and channel divinity.

The classic paladins should probably have channel divinity, probably in reversed order (smite then turn undead) and possibly 'lay on hands' as their own unique version of channel divinity. That covers the divine half pretty easily.

But what about the fighter half. What does the fighter get over the cleric?

+1 attack, +2 damage
~+1 hp per level (assuming the d10 as put forth in the last L&L)
All weapon proficiencies (what is the marginal benefit of additional martial weapons?)

So we can't really give the first line without severely stepping one what little ground the fighter has. But even giving them the other two entirely . . . then we weigh 1hp and a few secondary proficiencies against the cleric's full spellcasting progression. Is it really a reasonable trade?

So we need to find something that represents the paladin himself to counterweight the spellcasting of a cleric. Flatter math has definite benefits when it comes to scaling at higher levels, but it makes it a lot harder to squeeze things in the middle at the lower levels.

 

[Zaphling]

Cure spells, Protection From/Magic Circle Against Evil, they already have Smite, Remove Fear, they already have Detect Evil.

Again, what happened before has no bearing on what happens now.

There will be a Paladin. It just won't be its own class.

I think you are wrong on the last part. it has already been announced: all base class of all phb1

 

[hafrogman]

I think you are wrong on the last part. it has already been announced: all base class of all phb1

While I still think there will be a paladin class, there's a big difference between "announced" and

To start with we kind of shot at the moon, and said everything that's been in a Player's Handbook 1, we want to potentially have in our new player's book.

- January, 2012

(emphasis added)

Nothing is set in stone.

- May, 2012

 

[patrick y.]

You know, when then standard justification for removing the paladin is "The cleric already does all that," then the best solution isn't to get rid of the paladin, it's to scale back the cleric. If the cleric class has really gobbled up so much conceptual space that it has fully eaten another's niche, then it's grown way too big for its britches.

 

[Zaphling]

many, not all, agreed that 4e was the version that nailed the Paladin into being awesome and standalone. it was only in this version that a pally was not a multiclass mesh like in 3e. 3e pally was a waste of design space. although i still played 3e pally because its my favorite class, but i was frustrated by it. hence, the switch to 4e and Pathfinder.

 

[drothgery]

I'm not going to debate whether the new edition needs a paladin or not, but I will tell you flat out....its going to get one.

WOTC is going to make a paladin class. Too many people want it, and they are going to make it happen.

And that's fine, eventually. But I don't think you can make a paladin that's both distinct in flavor from a melee cleric and broad enough of a character concept to justify putting in the initial player's book. At least, not without something like 4e's combat roles, and since both striker and defender mechanics have been tagged on themes rather than class abilities so far, I'm thinking they're not going that way.

 

[grimslade]

The cleric of Moradin makes a darn fine paladin in my book.

So what do we do to make the 5E paladin more PaladiNext?

More Martial than cleric. Less caster more smasher. Divine Will through Force of Arms

Yoink the Un/Holy Smite mechanic 1d6 + Cha(?) and make it only deliverable through a weapon.

Lay on Hands allows the spending of HD in combat. Maybe bonus HD?

Channel Divinity fueling spell like abilities. Dump spell casting leave that for the templars. A paladin can Turn Undead or empower his weapon with Righteous Fury or Shield an Ally.

Give a paladin a bonus of 5' movement in Heavy armor. If the Paladin leads the charge, he should be able to lead the charge.

Give him auras instead of stances. A fear advantage aura, an attack outsiders advantage, an undead disadvantage.

 

[Minigiant]

I'm not going to debate whether the new edition needs a paladin or not, but I will tell you flat out....its going to get one.

WOTC is going to make a paladin class. Too many people want it, and they are going to make it happen.

Too make love paladins to not make a paladin class. The rage would be massive if they excluded it.

Now ideas:

Smite Evil: Bonus holy damage to evil monster equal to Cha mod

Channel Divinity:
Lay on Hands- Heal 1d10+CHA mod damage
Divine Grace- Turn any saving throw into a Cha Save
Divine Challenge- Target must attack Paladin until saving throw is made (DC is Wis based)
Wings of Light- Cast flight as spell