D&D 5E So, how hard is it to kill PCs anyway?

[Quickleaf]

This is always difficult I find. If I focus fire a downed target while other PCs are alive and fighting, I might seem like a rude DM who just wants to murder. Typically I have monsters change targets once a character is down (unless he's isolated), but it does mean that PCs have an easy time helping their buddies... hmm

There any many play styles, so nothing wrong with that.

Personally, I have more fun as DM (and I *think* my players have more fun too) when I really role-play monsters uniquely so that each encounter feels unique.

For example... Carrion crawlers attempt to attack unconscious prey and drag it away down the tunnel or into the lake. Intelligent opposition like a squad of hobgoblins focus on downing active combatants before worrying about stabbing the bodies to make sure they're dead. Generally, intelligent monsters aren't going to be attacking downed PCs unless they are vicious rivals of that individual PC, are attempting to demoralize a larger force the PCs lead with a decapitation, etc.

A good example of this was in the AD&D2e Player's Handbook, where the PCs, after one of the fighters kills a wererat, discover another wererat who swears vengeance saying something like "Ignatz was my brother." In a scenario like that, you're telegraphing to attentive players that, yes, this wererat is likely to try to murder you once you're down. A little telegraphing goes a long way.

 

[iserith]

Indeed. If the party is fighting a pack of gnolls with hyenas, the hyenas might stop to feed on a downed PC while the gnolls go rampaging after the other PCs.

If the party is facing a group of ghouls, one might stop to feed on a downed PC, perhaps even dragging them away first.

Basically, I generally only ever have a monster attack a downed PC if its goal is to actually eat the PC.

I think it's fair game as long as the DM announces this as a possibility at the outset of the fight. "Creatures possessed of such ravenous hunger that they will imperil themselves just to take a moment to slake their thirst for blood on an unconscious foe..."

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I think it's fair game as long as the DM announces this as a possibility at the outset of the fight. "Creatures possessed of such ravenous hunger that they will imperil themselves just to take a moment to slake their thirst for blood on an unconscious foe..."

What?

Oh by the way, the monsters you are trying to kill, they may try to kill you back.

Personally I hate the new death rules for this very reason. It makes a DM have to appear like a jerk. How I run it is simple. Smart foes KILL unconcious PCs as soon as they realize that the party has healing ability. Animal type foes attempt to drag their kill off with them to feed on it in safety as soon as a yummy target goes down. Oh and being dragged off in the jaws of a hungry foe generally equates to an automatically failed death save.

 

[iserith]

What?

Oh by the way, the monsters you are trying to kill, they may try to kill you back.

More like, "if you generally have an expectation that you'll be left alone while unconscious so that the monsters can take on other threats before dispatching you later, don't have that expectation here."

Personally I hate the new death rules for this very reason. It makes a DM have to appear like a jerk. How I run it is simple. Smart foes KILL unconcious PCs as soon as they realize that the party has healing ability. Animal type foes attempt to drag their kill off with them to feed on it in safety as soon as a yummy target goes down. Oh and being dragged off in the jaws of a hungry foe generally equates to an automatically failed death save.

That all seems reasonable. My point is that setting expectations beforehand goes a long way to making any undesirable outcomes at least seem fair.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

More like, "if you generally have an expectation that you'll be left alone while unconscious so that the monsters can take on other threats before dispatching you later, don't have that expectation here."



That all seems reasonable. My point is that setting expectations beforehand goes a long way to making any undesirable outcomes at least seem fair.

I dont like the idea of having to tell players that things they are trying to make dead will try to make them dead in return.

It does make me want to have a villain that studies the PCs and during some battle looks over at the cleric and with a smile says "Oh yes, you are the healer, I have seen how you always run over just in time to heal someone before they die" stabs the unconscious fighter "Oh I am sorry. I guess you did not get to him soon enough" then leaves.

 

[ccs]

IMO, it's usually the DM's fault in failing to properly frame a scene when players make really stupid decisions.

What more do you want me to do??
*I'm well known for killing characters
*THIS mini:

sits on its own little stand right in front of my DMs screen (or at least in front of where a screen would be if I used a screen). I refer to it as my co-DM....

Our PC Kill Count:
current PF campaign = 8
Current 5e campaign = 2 (but it's early yet & they aren't anywhere near the actual ToA )

 

[iserith]

I dont like the idea of having to tell players that things they are trying to make dead will try to make them dead in return.

Okay. I personally find that a harder case to make when you're saying that to someone who feels blindsided by their character being offed. Being "right" after the fact, however reasonable, doesn't much help here in my experience. Setting expectations ahead of time on the other hand does.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Okay. I personally find that a harder case to make when you're saying that to someone who feels blindsided by their character being offed. Being "right" after the fact, however reasonable, doesn't much help here in my experience. Setting expectations ahead of time on the other hand does.

To me the best option is a compromise. On Day One of every new campaign, and repeated every time a new player joins a group. "Foes you try to make dead will hold a grudge, in fact they may do the very same to you and try to make you dead, I said DEAD not unconscious, please consider your characters life to be as precious as you feel it should be."

This saves me from the metagaming horror of players who only attempt to save other downed PCs when they see that they note two failed saves.

 

[Inchoroi]

I have killed a character with sewer plague, botfly swarms, and piranha swarms. Doesn't take a lot.

 

[Eltab]

My Tiamat group slew an amp'ed-up Arauthator (ancient white dragon with max HP &c) despite having half the group down and making Death Saves at one point.

- Pull the Healer away from everybody else and focus fire on him/her.
- Keep track of what magic healing you gave out earlier; you will have to rip through that as well as the basic HP supply.

My group revived the Bard, who pulled out a Staff of Healing and max'ed it out - everybody was healed back to max HP (and there were enough extra HP floating around loose that I could have full-healed Arauthator too and STILL had extra HP left over.

Doing things differently: Have a plan that does as much damage as you can think up, about 5 turns' worth. (My plan ran three turns and then I went easy on them for a round - mistake!)

Does the boss monster have lair actions? Use them! Get in as many extra hits as you can.

If this enemy is somebody the PCs have met before, take advantage of any little thing from previous encounters. If you can get one PC to charge the enemy while the others stand back (or turn to face a different front) you can take down the solo star.
During the Cult's assassination attempt, I shot our barbarian with the Oathbow her previous character had owned. The killer squad was led by the sergeant who slew the previous character. When the player figured it out, her barbarian made a bee-line to the archer for a one-on-one to the death. She did get her trophy (and remembrance of her slain friend) back. I should have thought of a way to take advantage of her leaving the house where most of the action was.

The one time I was able to kill a character with relative ease, a Ranger jumped into the polar ocean to fight "Nessie" (a plesiosaur). He gave himself two levels of exhaustion and could barely act by the time Nessie got a bite on him. (The player was not upset because he wanted to introduce a new character anyways.) Maybe I should have tried to sink the ship...