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So... is anyone else coming around?

pawsplay

Hero
I keep thinking I'll try it as an alternative, and it's cheaper to preorder it now than buy it later, but I just keep having misgivings. I don't like kender, for instance, and nothing about the new class abilities makes me anything but sad.

I also didn't like MM IV, The Book of Nine Swords, the Factotum, Dragon Shamans, or most of the new races introduced in the Racs books. So there you are.
 

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Clavis

First Post
The more information that gets released, the more I find that the English language doesn't contain the words needed to express my disdain for the 4th edition.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I am neither enthusiastic for, nor distainful of, the things we have seen about 4e. The more i hear, the more I feel that we still lack enough context to make judgments.
 

Darrin Drader

Explorer
There would have to be a lot of things we haven't seen yet that impress the heck out of me in order to swing me back around. I more or less started out in favor of the new edition but have been moving away from that with every new thing they reveal about it.
 

Black_Swan

First Post
I'm in...

I'm looking for something new to spark my imagination and this looks like it will be it.

Otherwise gaming is pretty much played out for me.
 

KingCrab

First Post
I'm about the same overall. I like a lot of the little we've heard of the mechanics, but I hate pretty much all of the flavor (kenderized halflings, dwarf slaves, magic schools with stupid names). Overall I'm still mostly against it, but no more or less than I was at the beginning.
 

GlassJaw

Hero
Raduin711 said:
it isn't like I wasn't going to buy it before now, but I am feeling better about 4e now. Is anyone else feeling like they would like to "change sides" and start getting excited about 4e?

The more I hear, the less I like - I'm going backwards.
 

Tortoise

First Post
The longer it takes to get any solid information, and the worse the information we do have looks, the less and less likely I am to switch.

Some things sound promising, but those could be bogus, while others sound legit and are really annoying.

Here's a list of things I already find annoying:

kender instead of halflings - why is it that we have to suffer a race predisposed to kleptomania in the core rules? If I wanted that I'd play Dragonlance.

feat names that imply setting - (GWA?) I would prefer descriptive names that don't imply flavor I'd have to edit out of any setting I plan to run.

the fact that at this point everything is still in development and lots of flux - this increases my sense that we're going to be handed a hastily slapped together, very messy set of rules that'll require a point five version to make playable. If that's the case, PLEASE delay launch till things are right. I can happily wait. I still feel that 4e is 2 years too early.

The list could go on, but the more I think about it the less I like what I'm seeing coming.

Dare I say I still consider my view as neutral on 4e at this point?
 

The Ubbergeek

First Post
You guys should perhaps take a calmer 'wait and see' attitude... It's like the ontarians decided to take over the world or something, an huge catastrophe.

It could also change for the better.
 

Elemmakil

First Post
I'm mixed, and have always been mixed. My first reaction was primarily negative: "Is it really time yet? Even if they pull something pretty nifty, they could have waited another couple years." This changed as they started talking about the mechanical weaknesses of 3E: things that I had believed for years. Heh, it looks like they might have finally hired a math major. Good for them!

The new flavor has been disappointing in the extreme: the infamous Golden Wyvern (and other Wizard traditions) was, frankly, absolutely ridiculous. The core books are designed to be setting neutral; they said so themselves. Come on, I was so happy to see the stupid Druid Organization rules dropped from 2E, so why on earth did they have to add more setting-based things in core books! 3E finally got it right, and then they go and screw it up again. Figures. The use of Dragonborn (and the general shift away from Tolkienien Fantasy) was another issue. There is some flavor inherent in the races and classes presented: a world with only humans and no magic is dramatically different from Harry Potter because the rules about what can and cannot happen or exist are fundamentally different. That flavor should then try to please as many people as possible. Well, Dragonborn aren't part of that, but things such as elves and dwarves exist in most fantasy worlds, and serve as a sort of default. Putting them in the PH dictates there existance to DM's without the time to rewrite fundamental options, but most DM's would put them in anyway. Dragonborn, not so much. I would love those in a supplemental book, but I wanted them to stick to the basics in the core rules.

There have been some very pleasant surprises, too. The matching defense AC and attack modifiers based on level are so much more mathematically sound than the previous system, which always seemed to work (or not work) because of playtesting and some luck, but not because anyone actually thought about what they were doing beforehand. I thought that it was too much to hope for them to do the same with attack and AC, and use a one-time constant bonus, and lo and behold they did it! Hallelujah! Removing the crit confirmation roll (if it is indeed gone) is bad for exactly the same reason: crits (without that rule) tend to be difficult to balance because no one knows how often they occur.

I have some concerns with multiclassing that they will, I hope, address. The one-time static bonuses (to defenses/attacks and also trained skills) seem like they make the first class matter most in the case of multiclassing. I hope that they do not make multiclassing feel like the first class is always the primary one. Grrr. Maybe the "<class> training" feats fix this. I cannot think of a mathematically elegant solution (other than those feats) that is reasonable to compute and not abusable (or, on the other hand, that doesn't punish people for multiclassing).

I am now optimistic, but a bit worried. They've done some wonderful things that I wanted to see done for so long, but never dreamed that they would actually do. They've also rewritten some flavor that was way too specific and sometimes plain bad (or plane bad... get it? The Great Wheel). This would have been all fine and dandy, but they added more specificity for no apparent (good) purpose. The way it looks right now, I'm probably getting 3E. This has changed over time, but not in any steady pattern. We'll see how it continues to change.
 

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