So... is anyone else coming around?

[hazel monday]

I'm still undecided, despite WOTC's best efforts to lose me as a customer.

 

[MonkeeGalore]

The only thing I've been turned off from in recent weeks is the DI stuff. I'd love to be able to play on an online gametable with my friends, but unless registering the MM unlocks the miniatures for all the monsters within said tome, I'll put the effort into getting together with them and playing IRL.

I agree completely. So far the information WoTC has released about the DI points so much more in the “cash cow” direction than in the “great tool for online gaming” direction. I can easily see that the DI looks promising from a business standpoint, but I’m afraid they are loosing sight of the fact that if they’re going to be charging 10 dollars / month + “a few dollars” for unlocking books + additional charges for randomized packs of virtual minis, then the DI applications better be pretty amazing. And so far I’m not impressed. Hope to be proven wrong, though

 

[ivocaliban]

When the 4e announcement was made I was put off by it. Seemed just a smidge (a year or so) too early for my liking. I was probably around 70/30 against at that point. The timing of the announcement being the main thing that shifted the scales for me. (That and the idea of preview books...that you buy...and either end up holding onto forever because you're a packrat or you sell as soon as 4e is out because you realize the previews are now pointless and taking up valuable shelf space. Mini-rant over!)

After the less than stellar (excepting your article on Graz'zt, Mr. Jacobs!) debut of the online Dragon/Dungeon magazines, the wizardly implements, the strange cobbled-together feel of the new setting mixed with the new system and a number of tiny things that seem insigificant on their own but quickly add up to --I shifted to around 80/20 against.

Then came the mystery race leak and the Dragonborn took the stage. I was completely underwhelmed. In the meantime, all the third party folks are selling off their 3e books at prices that can't be beat. I'm picking up three dozen or so books (entire campaign settings, sourcebooks, adventures...everything) for less than the cost of any ten WotC books I own. In short, I've more than doubled the amount of settings I have for 3e (Kingdoms of Kalamar, Dawnforge, Midnight, The Black Company, Thieves' World...) and I have more than enough material to play 3e for the rest of my life and still not cover it all. If anything I'm even more invested in 3e now than I was before the 4e announcement. I'm sitting around 90/10 against purchasing any new edition for the next couple of years at the very least.

 

[Blue]

The more I hear, the less I like - I'm going backwards.

I was "cautiously optimistic". The beginning hints were things that I could really see working out. But I'm with Glassjaw - the more I see the actual directions they have taken things, the less enthused I am.

I think it's going to be a good game. I think lots of people will like it a lot. The question for me is if it will be a better game for me then 3.5.

When 3.0 came out, I dived in and ran a campaign. A friend had a long running AD&D 2ed campaign (w/ Skills & Powers) that didnt' switch over for a while, and it started to feel really clunky. I sort of assumed this would be 4ed - we don't know what we're missing until we give it a try, and then we're astounded we didn't miss those options before.

But I'm not sure about some of the things they have presented recently. It could just be fear of change. Like I said, I'm sure it'll be a good game. If I had never played an RPG, I'm sure it would knock my socks off. But for a player and DM in existing, long running campaigns, I don't know if it will be able to fit into my current play or not.

Thoughtfully,
=Blue(23)

 

[Stormtower]

I very much like the stuff that Mike Mearls has been posting about design (check some of the other 4e threads for the specifics). He seems to have a real love of D&D and is taking the game in new directions. I will continue to watch from afar and play my beloved 3.5e, because despite the good design intentions of Mearls & Co. there are too many negatives from a marketing and business perspective for me to opt in to 4e.

DDI/eDungeon/eDragon - no thanks, I prefer printed issues arriving in my mail slot.

Paying for a basic DDI subscription, and then paying "about the price of a cup of coffee" to unlock online PDFs of books I already paid for? Nope.

Buying actual plastic minis for tabletop use, and then paying again for "Virtual" versions of the minis (randomized like the M:tG online)? Nope.

4e about 2-3 years too early? IMO, yes.

The flavor/fluff changes are disappointing thus far to me personally, but nonetheless I am pleased to see a design team willing to take risks with the established D&D canon. But none of the places they've taken the flavor are appealing to me.

I'm still watching the developments with intense interest, and I'm not a 4e hater, but I've not budged from my "not buying" stance.

 

[Grymar]

Mixed here. One day I'll start to get excited, the next disappointed.

I like most of the crunch we've heard so far. I have to see how the fighter class works yet since for me that is the keystone of all classes. Can they do it without giving the fighter magic? Will the fighter be balanced and fun?

The addition of warlocks, tieflings, and dragonborn have done nothing to make me more enthusiastic. Those are all valid expansion ideas, but I do not like them in the assumed core rules.

Beyond that, it is going to come down to support of Eberron. How do they suddenly integrate dragonborn? Can I play Eberron in 4e in 2008?

What really bothers me is DDI. It has potential, but my entire yearly budget for D&D is about $100-$150...that gets me about 3 books a year and an adventure or mini pack. Now the DDI has potential to take all of that money for questionable return. They must really have some solid value for me to be involved in that.

Plus my entire gaming group has decided that 4e equals a Final Fantasy RPG, so they don't want to move. Like I said, the mechanics look good but the other issues just kill my enthusiasm to the point where I don't think I'll bother fighting them.

As it stands right now, I don't see me buying it in 2008.

 

[delericho]

Is anyone else feeling like they would like to "change sides" and start getting excited about 4e?

Sadly, no.

I really wanted to like 4e. The flaws in 3.5e are pretty obvious by now, and the system has accumulated enough baggage that running it feels like a real chore at times. At the same time, the massive clean-up job that was performed on the rules in the move to 3e has made the idiosyncrasies of previous editions (notably Exceptional Strength in AD&D, races-as-classes in BD&D, and decreasing ACs in both) really jarring. So, seeking a simpler play experience by reverting to an earlier edition isn't really an option I would enjoy.

Unfortunately, there have been several changes suggested that I hate. There have been a lot that just leave me cold, and there have been precious few (beyond the I'll-believe-it-when-I-see-it promises of a better play experience, easier prep, and simplified rules) that I have actually liked... and at least one of those was promptly changed for the worse.

I'm still holding out hope that they've just been doing an incredibly poor job selling me on the game, and that it will actually be really good. However, I'm also contemplating the possibility that I have made my last-ever D&D purchase.

 

[Meeki]

I'm excited but can't say if it will be better than 3.5 or not based on the information. I'm just relieved that I won't have to pour through 100's of pages of splat books to read over what someone in my group wants to use and determine if its balanced or will break my game. I'm looking forward to the reduction in prestige classes, quicker flow in combat, and change in melee.

Assumptions and skepticism are solidfying people's views before it's released. Yes WoTC is releasing ANOTHER edition of D&D but they are a company based around gaming. For those of you who are going to go *hrumph* to my post, just remember your local library will obtain these books not so long after its release. So you can check it out with relatively little investment.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Unfortunately, there have been several changes suggested that I hate. There have been a lot that just leave me cold, and there have been precious few (beyond the I'll-believe-it-when-I-see-it promises of a better play experience, easier prep, and simplified rules) that I have actually liked... and at least one of those was promptly changed for the worse.

That's where I'm sitting, in a nutshell.


RC

 

[FickleGM]

Add me to the camp that started out more enthused and has since moved to the unenthused side. I haven't seen anything, yet, that would pull me out of the nose-dive, either.