Some Ideas, if you please.

[SpaceBaby Industries]

Nervious perhaps...

If you're looking to capitalize on the labyrinthine nature of the crypt, consider some sort of pervasive magic that confounds effective mapping. Being reduced to wandering about, never quite sure how if you really know where the exit is would definitely raise anxiety levels.

You'd probably be pushing your luck (too much frustration for the players) if this was for the entire crypt, but it would certainly ratchet things up a notch or two for when you're looking at a "salsa level". I daresay this sort of tangled web would play well to the mindset of an eons old paranoid on multiple levels.

On the lighter side, you should include some sort of widget (altar/statue/glowing rock floating without visible support whilst surrounded by awakened Dire Guinea Pigs* in supplication) that dispenses healing or minor assistance if you put your tongue on it the right way.

*aka Peepers. I can get you the stats if you like. They're usually non-evil, but these could be undead, or corrupted, or actually allies. "We're on a (peep) mission from the Sun God...say, is that a delectably large head of lettuce?" "Actually no, that's Bolo, our Druid..."

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

You might also consider the extensive use of illusionary walls in the labrynth. It's a permanent low level spell that's perfect for such things. If you take an ordinary maze and create illusionary walls so that it is a series of identical boxes (to visual inspection), it should be disorienting to say the least. It could be defeated by True Seeing but that costs money and uses party resources. Find the Path would defeat the maze and any disorienting effect it has but wouldn't do anything about the traps.

Even better, it could enhance the use of True Seeing by bad guys. Since you're stealing from Piratecate, you could go all the way and steal his true ghoul Deepwood Sniper too. Slap a True Seeing effect on her and she can shoot the party through several illusionary walls. Only a PC with True Seeing up would be able to return the favor.

And if PCs without True Seeing rush through the (now obviously) illusionary walls to attack her, that is when they discover that there can be illusionary floors concealing pit traps filled with fire giant zombies (or shadows or true ghoul fire giants, etc). Of course, True Seeing would make that pointless. What True Seeing most likely wouldn't reveal however, would be a reverse gravity trap of the same nature with the pit on the ceiling.

Other possibilities: The illusionary walls don't all cover passages. They also cover up the arrow slits in real walls. And the murder holes in the real ceiling. Etc. Etc.

Of course, with your party, you're only likely to make any of these tricks work once (if that) since they have access to magics that would enable them to defeat most of these.

The trick is that they are unlikely to all have access to the magics that defeat each trick/trap at once--at least until they twig on to what you're doing. So, other than the initial surprise value and possible disorienting effect of everything looking identical, the main effect that these things are likely to have is to split the party. Aethramir and Dravot have true seeing up but Valanthe doesn't? Well then, the two of them may be tempted to move forward to deal with the ghoulish sniper while the rest of the party moves more slowly and cautiously. Similarly, Scorch can go ethereal, blink, or dimension door onto the other side of the illusionary wall to deal with the hidden arrow slit ambush and Valanthe can Shadow Jump to do the same thing but can everyone get there at once? If it turns out that the threat is more than it initially appeared--(maybe a vampiric girallon monk is waiting to come to the ghoulish sniper's aid or a she has a wall of force item to prevent further pursuit) , things that would not be a threat to the whole party could prove useful to the Shadow Taker's defenses.

 

[mypetrock]

I'm not quite sure on how the rules for this work out - a room where there are a bunch of vampires in gaseous form. The vampires use their slam attack on the party while in gaseous form to drain levels away.

If the dungeon isn't limited to a single plane, you could have a lot of fun bouncing them to the negative energy plane. If they don't catch up on it immediately, that could be bad. Dravot would probably end up with some serious penalties on the NE plane akin to a lawful creature on a strongly chaotic plane.

DMs frequently shy away from throwing hordes of low-level creatures at players which I think is a mistake. In sufficient numbers they present a challenge even though the death of a single goblin occurs in a single swing/arrow/80th part of Chain Lightning. It could be quite comical to have a Moria-like number of goblins swarm-grapple the party.

mypetrock

 

[WizarDru]

Some more good ideas there. Invisible things can be hairy. The problem is that Kayleigh has a Permanent See Invisible spell these days, so things with Invisibility are out of the question, on the one hand, but I don't want to metagame traps with that in mind...at least, not more than once or twice.

However, my players have chosen to confound my expectations, and instead of making a beeline for the ShadowTaker, have decided instead to make a rescue attempt on Gelban, their golden dragon patron (or former patron, depending on how you feel about the situation). I've started a separate thread for that topic, and it's Right Here.

Although some of you already knew that.

 

[WizarDru]

Okey-doke. We're back. After the roller-coaster ride of pain that was The Durance Vile, we're on track for the Crypt of the Shadow-Taker.

Which brings me to the next request for ideas. Traps, I've got now, from here and other sources. But let's talk about the dungeon environment. How to make it otherworldly?

Here's the basic concept for the Crypts: using the concept that Forge of Fury did, namely separate but distinctly different styles and locations, essentially creating several 'sub-dungeons', forcing the players to switch both tactics and gears, possibly even having to retreat more than once to change spell load-outs, and so forth.

Problem number one: How to keep them in the actual dungeon? I intend to have sections of the dungeon either co-terminous or actually IN other planes (even if they're just demi-planes) to partially limit mobility. What other things do I need to be aware of and plan for. A forbiddance effect is a start, but the characters have access to some serious mojo, with a high-level cleric, druid and wizard.

Problem number two: What kind of nightmarish things will serve the Shadow-taker? Undead, sure, but not just undead. That gets boring, and cheats several characters from using their special talents (such as sneak attack, improved critical, and so forth). Plus, many of the undead are going to be sitting ducks to the cleric/hunter of the dead/radiant servant.

The goal here is, as always, to never rob the players of their abilities, other than for a short time. The first battle in Durance Vile, for example, was a mixed bag: some players had lots to do, others had very little. The next session everyone had a chance to shine. That's the admirable goal. Since this will be a dungeon session, with lots of encounters and traps, I'm not as worried on the individual encounter level, as long as overall, everyone has their chance.

I do intend to use beasties that are invulnerable, unless their weak spot is found. I don't want pure force to be the way to win the day. One thing I truly enjoyed about Forge of Fury was how it could be approached from several different angles, and proper tactical thinking was rewarded. I want to do that here...but I also want a dungeon built specifically, over time, by an evil and powerful being to keep his enemies and the surface world out. I'm also itching to unleash a veritable swarm of some sort of low-level beasties, probably not dangerous, per se, but interesting.

Scrying will be blocked in whole dungeon areas. I may even have a 'scrying-feeback' enchantment running, to counter such things. The meepites rarely depend on divining spells, but I'll need to consider them, at least.

So, there's the starting parameters, folks. Hit me with the good stuff! Shower me with the ENWorlders wonderful ideas. The ideas you feed me often lead me to other, equally interesting ideas, even when I don't use yours.

Let's brainstorm!

 

[Ryan Koppenhaver]

Problem number one: How to keep them in the actual dungeon? I intend to have sections of the dungeon either co-terminous or actually IN other planes (even if they're just demi-planes) to partially limit mobility.

They're so gonna accuse you of ripping off Piratecat.

Of course, you can then reply that you were going to put a series of big treasure vaults in the dungeon, but since they don't want this to be like PC's game....

What other things do I need to be aware of and plan for. A forbiddance effect is a start, but the characters have access to some serious mojo, with a high-level cleric, druid and wizard.

You could give some parts of the dungeon the "dead magic" trait, so the only way in or out is permanent portals. (Obviously, this cripples spellcasters, so you're not going to want to overdo it.) Likewise, the "impeded magic" trait could make it difficult to cast the high level spells needed to teleport or plane shift out. (Though a clever party might think to use a rope trick first, and then plane shift from there.)

Perhaps the dungeon has some sort of alarm system that reacts to planar travel and automatically creates or summons some sort of guards whenever someone arrives. Combine that with some sort of unavoidable annoyance at the main entrance (maybe a short walk through a negative dominant area), and they'll be reluctant to leave, knowing that one way or another, coming back will be a pain.

Problem number two: What kind of nightmarish things will serve the Shadow-taker? Undead, sure, but not just undead. That gets boring, and cheats several characters from using their special talents (such as sneak attack, improved critical, and so forth). Plus, many of the undead are going to be sitting ducks to the cleric/hunter of the dead/radiant servant.

Tainted astral constructs would fit in well, I think. You could convert any psionic abilities to magical ones, and maybe change their type (outsider, monstrous humanoid, and magical beast could all work) so they'll be vulnerable to sneak attack and improved critical.

I'm also itching to unleash a veritable swarm of some sort of low-level beasties, probably not dangerous, per se, but interesting.

How are the party's illusion detection capabilities? You could throw a hundred moderately weak creatures at them, only a dozen of which are real.

Or-- and I know this has been done before-- some sort of "spawner" creature with no direct offense, but good enough hps and saves that if the party can't just wipe it out in one round, and will have to split their attention between managing the population of spawned nasties and trying to take out the source. If balanced just right, this could require some good tactical choices to beat without a major headache.

 

[WizarDru]

They're so gonna accuse you of ripping off Piratecat.

Wouldn't be the first time. They're already threatening to take away my templates.

Truthfully, though, I was envisioning something different than what PC used in the dwarven vault. I'm seeing the different sections as essentially demi-planes that are interwoven with the Prime. Several old-school 1e dungeons did something similar.

You could give some parts of the dungeon the "dead magic" trait, so the only way in or out is permanent portals.

Is this just a detailed mechanic from somewhere, or just an idea? I'm not familiar with it. Does it give a penalty to casting, or is it just an anti-magic zone?

Perhaps the dungeon has some sort of alarm system that reacts to planar travel and automatically creates or summons some sort of guards whenever someone arrives. Combine that with some sort of unavoidable annoyance at the main entrance (maybe a short walk through a negative dominant area), and they'll be reluctant to leave, knowing that one way or another, coming back will be a pain.

I like that. There's already been a precedent twice for this in-game, and I certainly don't mind using it again, as it's probably expected. The Meepites know enough not to blindly port in to a dangerous zone. Well, everybody but Valanthe, anyhow. She just likes to live dangerously.

The rest of that stuff is pure gold, Ryan. The tainted stuff is great (time to use the BovD...it's what I bought it for), and the "spawner" monster is great. I've rarely used illusions of any kind, and this would be a perfect use for one. Especially as it emphasizes using a new monster that requires some intelligence to defeat, and then can be used a second time to let them use the knowledge gained from the first encounter.

 

[Ryan Koppenhaver]

Glad you like the ideas!

Is this just a detailed mechanic from somewhere, or just an idea? I'm not familiar with it. Does it give a penalty to casting, or is it just an anti-magic zone?

Manual of the Planes, page 13-14. Dead Magic is basically just an always on antimagic field. Limited Magic is the same, but only affects selected spells. Impeded magic requires a Spellcraft check (DC 15+spell level) to cast selected spells.

 

[WizarDru]

Wow. Can't believe I forgot about that. That's perfect, muchos gracias.

 

[IamnotDravot]

How about you fill the dungeon with 1st level kobolds and lots of phat lewt and leave it at that?