Mathew_Freeman
First Post
I'd weigh in and say you don't get any other bonuses - if it says to do Str damage to an adjacent target, that's all you do. No other modifiers apply - if they did it would be mentioned.
Some questions from actual play
Ximenes088
First Post
I think it's pretty clear that Cleave and Reaping Strike do only the listed stat's worth of damage on a miss. Aside from the fact that they'd have noted if it were otherwise, to include weapon focus and magic item plusses in the tally would more than double the amount of damage done at the higher levels, plus open up a whole new can of synergistic worms. With low-damage weapons it could prove to be comparatively irrelevant whether or not you actually hit if you can just stack enough bonii on things.
To quote the PHB, page 276:
"DAMAGE ROLLS
- Roll the damage indicated in the power description. If you’re using a weapon for the attack, the damage is some multiple of your weapon damage dice.
- Add the ability modifier specified in the power description. Usually, this is the same ability modifier you used to determine your base attack bonus for the attack.
In addition, any of the following factors might apply to a damage roll:
- Racial or feat bonuses
- An enhancement bonus (usually from a magic weapon or an implement)
- An item bonus
- A power bonus
- Untypes bonuses"
So, you get weapon focus and similar bonuses on damage rolls. You do not get them for flat damage numbers, such as the bonus damage dealt by Cleave, or the miss damage dealt by Reaping Strike.
A few other clarifications of the issue that I've seen some confusion with:
1) Any attack that says [W] is a damage roll. Now, the [W] is only part of the roll - whether it is mutliplied or not, the other bonuses remain the same.
2) Critical hits are still damage rolls, even though the damage is maximized. It is still a damage roll - you are just replacing the dice with the maximum result they would deal. (However, since you are replacing them with the max result, rather than rolling the max result, it wouldn't auto-trigger the Vorpal weapon special ability.)
3) If you make multiple attacks with one action, each damage roll can get the effect of your bonuses. For example, a Ranger can use Twin Strike as an at-will power. He makes two attacks that deal [W] damage, but don't get his normal strength or dexterity modifier to damage. But they would each get the benefit of Weapon Focus, weapon enhancements, and similar bonuses.
"DAMAGE ROLLS
- Roll the damage indicated in the power description. If you’re using a weapon for the attack, the damage is some multiple of your weapon damage dice.
- Add the ability modifier specified in the power description. Usually, this is the same ability modifier you used to determine your base attack bonus for the attack.
In addition, any of the following factors might apply to a damage roll:
- Racial or feat bonuses
- An enhancement bonus (usually from a magic weapon or an implement)
- An item bonus
- A power bonus
- Untypes bonuses"
So, you get weapon focus and similar bonuses on damage rolls. You do not get them for flat damage numbers, such as the bonus damage dealt by Cleave, or the miss damage dealt by Reaping Strike.
A few other clarifications of the issue that I've seen some confusion with:
1) Any attack that says [W] is a damage roll. Now, the [W] is only part of the roll - whether it is mutliplied or not, the other bonuses remain the same.
2) Critical hits are still damage rolls, even though the damage is maximized. It is still a damage roll - you are just replacing the dice with the maximum result they would deal. (However, since you are replacing them with the max result, rather than rolling the max result, it wouldn't auto-trigger the Vorpal weapon special ability.)
3) If you make multiple attacks with one action, each damage roll can get the effect of your bonuses. For example, a Ranger can use Twin Strike as an at-will power. He makes two attacks that deal [W] damage, but don't get his normal strength or dexterity modifier to damage. But they would each get the benefit of Weapon Focus, weapon enhancements, and similar bonuses.
Fredrik Svanberg
First Post
So if you have a -1 Str mod, you heal your opponent?
Of course not. And if you have a -1 Str mod but you have been clever enough to compensate for it by getting a +6 weapon, you don't suddenly lose that edge. The enhancement bonus of your weapon is added to your damage, just as when you roll a damage dice.
Let's imagine there's a power that causes 1[w] + [Mod] damage on a hit but only half damage on a miss. Do you not add any relevant bonuses to the damage before halving it? Sure you do. Same thing with an attack that does 0[w] + [Mod].
Of course not. And if you have a -1 Str mod but you have been clever enough to compensate for it by getting a +6 weapon, you don't suddenly lose that edge. The enhancement bonus of your weapon is added to your damage, just as when you roll a damage dice.
Let's imagine there's a power that causes 1[w] + [Mod] damage on a hit but only half damage on a miss. Do you not add any relevant bonuses to the damage before halving it? Sure you do. Same thing with an attack that does 0[w] + [Mod].
Fredrik Svanberg
First Post
What should they call it then? Whether you roll dice or not, whenever you cause damage you add up every applicable bonus. I don't see anything that says that enhancement bonuses, racial bonuses, class bonuses or unnamed bonuses are only to be included when calculating damage under certain circumstances.
Fredrik Svanberg
First Post
keterys said:
And saying that you shouldn't be a certain class or use certain powers just because your stats don't conform to the standard member of that class is a pretty bad way to design a game. I think the designers are smarter than that. I think they would explicitly mention when a power contradicts how the core rules works, instead of let people guess whether the word "roll" is supposed to matter or not.
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