Some rules musings
reiella
Explorer
Fun question for clarification here too.
Won't occur anytime soon but still asking
.
Would perfect/cunning defense subtract one point of 'damage' from the FoF as well? (ie, -1 to each individual attack as it is worded) Or would it only be -1 (total) for the round itself?
[ And added after Gray's post below, I do agree with his view, elsewise, kinda neuters FoF thoroughly ]
Won't occur anytime soon but still asking
.Would perfect/cunning defense subtract one point of 'damage' from the FoF as well? (ie, -1 to each individual attack as it is worded) Or would it only be -1 (total) for the round itself?
[ And added after Gray's post below, I do agree with his view, elsewise, kinda neuters FoF thoroughly ]
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graydoom
First Post
I think it would be subtracted from the total round damage... ie, first you determine how much damage the move would normally do, then you subtract 1.reiella said:Fun question for clarification here too.
Won't occur anytime soon but still asking
Would perfect/cunning defense subtract one point of 'damage' from the FoF as well? (ie, -1 to each individual attack as it is worded) Or would it only be -1 (total) for the round itself?
I sorta think that that is the intent of the rules.
Phoenix8008
First Post
Jin Chi said:
I LOVE this idea. It keeps immunities as a factor without making it seem like a drawback to have so many styles. Can you imagine the fight between two 6th tier honor fighters under the current rules? It would come down to who drew more moves that their opponent was immune to, not moves that won because they scored points themselves.
Please make this change at least. I think that I could also support equalizing the styles and locations some more. No hard data of course, but it seems like it would be more balanced. Could be wrong here though.
[Added] Also, regarding the Dojo Style power. In the rules as I read them, it does not actually say that they act like a Signature style in any way. I know that is the intent and that is how the power has been played to my knowledge, but the description says nothing but how you go about getting a dojo style, not what ability it gives you. I could easily accept Dojo Style not giving immunity to the fighter who has it.[/Added]
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reiella
Explorer
Will also bring up another point with the difference between Sig Styles and Locations that Kalanyr brought up before too.
It becomes alot more of a balance issue when you compare Dark to Light. As Light just gain sig locs for their Right of Domain as opposed to the Mind Thief boon that the Dark get which also produces immunities (I believe at least) currently. While Holy Day + Holy Warrior is a stronger combo than Sneaky Trick + Unholy Warrior, it may be worth noting that the light also suffers strongly from auto-failing insult rounds (although as more fights are coming with sets of preset conditions for the challenge, it's less of an issue).
I do really wish to know though why Styles are supposed to be greater than locations currently. For the mirroring balance, at least using the same justification that was initially there for the decision, it should be Styles that are weaker (because of honored modifier and greater number of powers)... Best reason that I see is it is a legacy, but it's a legacy that causing a problem (and I am worried much the same for the situation Phoenix mentioned, although at least Honored Fighters and Light Fighters can mastery their move away).
[ The other thing is, I do want other opinions and views and justifications to try to get a better understanding, because I really hope to be wrong or at least, to help structure a more fair basis in the minds of the fighters if we do decide on changes ]
It becomes alot more of a balance issue when you compare Dark to Light. As Light just gain sig locs for their Right of Domain as opposed to the Mind Thief boon that the Dark get which also produces immunities (I believe at least) currently. While Holy Day + Holy Warrior is a stronger combo than Sneaky Trick + Unholy Warrior, it may be worth noting that the light also suffers strongly from auto-failing insult rounds (although as more fights are coming with sets of preset conditions for the challenge, it's less of an issue).
I do really wish to know though why Styles are supposed to be greater than locations currently. For the mirroring balance, at least using the same justification that was initially there for the decision, it should be Styles that are weaker (because of honored modifier and greater number of powers)... Best reason that I see is it is a legacy, but it's a legacy that causing a problem (and I am worried much the same for the situation Phoenix mentioned, although at least Honored Fighters and Light Fighters can mastery their move away).
[ The other thing is, I do want other opinions and views and justifications to try to get a better understanding, because I really hope to be wrong
or at least, to help structure a more fair basis in the minds of the fighters if we do decide on changes ]
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Personaly I think that if any change is made to sig styles, the most we should do is the -1 if your sig style is used against you.
Removing immunity completly would really change the spirit of the whole game, which should be avoided at all costs IMO.
And even though sig styles are more powerfull then sig locations, due to immunity, without that, the yak would be a good bit more powerfull then the honored path once again, IMO anyway. Even though chi strike does equale out dirty trick and/or sneaky trick... Chi strike is in of it's self mostly usless. All it does is make sure the round is judged.
Dirty trick and sneaky trick both have more effect on the match then chi strike does.
Removing immunity completly would really change the spirit of the whole game, which should be avoided at all costs IMO.
And even though sig styles are more powerfull then sig locations, due to immunity, without that, the yak would be a good bit more powerfull then the honored path once again, IMO anyway. Even though chi strike does equale out dirty trick and/or sneaky trick... Chi strike is in of it's self mostly usless. All it does is make sure the round is judged.
Dirty trick and sneaky trick both have more effect on the match then chi strike does.
reiella
Explorer
Well for that Vanor... It is a matter of opinion, and of which I feel there was a knee-kerk reaction to the honored strength and that they fare a bit too strongly relative to yakuza now. As it is now, the Honored fighter is more likly to generate a 2 point move in general (past Tier 2, at which it is an even odd of a 2 point move), and then more likly to generate stronger moves based purely on their passives...
As it is currently, the honored fighter get 23 powers total (and tends to have more than any other equal ranked fighter except at Teir 2 where the Dark/Light warriors edge them out by one) which is 5 more than every other path except Yen which is 6 more. If you consider Style Immunity as a seperate power, this edges up further to 33 powers.
[ added note, also if immunity not striken in general, I do still feel that styles and locations should be equal, in terms of power ranges. And we should had the bonus -1 hit (minimum 0 damage) for the locations as well... And as an added bonus I believe this would limit the rare chance of being 'screwed' by gaining a style you had purchased item immunity from ]
As it is currently, the honored fighter get 23 powers total (and tends to have more than any other equal ranked fighter except at Teir 2 where the Dark/Light warriors edge them out by one) which is 5 more than every other path except Yen which is 6 more. If you consider Style Immunity as a seperate power, this edges up further to 33 powers.
[ added note, also if immunity not striken in general, I do still feel that styles and locations should be equal, in terms of power ranges. And we should had the bonus -1 hit (minimum 0 damage) for the locations as well... And as an added bonus I believe this would limit the rare chance of being 'screwed' by gaining a style you had purchased item immunity from
]
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Does Chi Strike currently prevent the judges from being bribed? It should.....
Also about Bribe Judges....perhaps to balance it, the cost should be dependent on the number of points generated rather than just a fixed amount. Mebbe 2 yen per point from the move....
I don't mind that styles give immunity. But perhaps the Yaks should have additional locations to make up for this. Signature Style IS presently two powers in one. +1 when the style is generated by you and full immunity when the style is generated by your opponent.
Vs. Signature Location which is +1 when the style is generated by you.
Also about Bribe Judges....perhaps to balance it, the cost should be dependent on the number of points generated rather than just a fixed amount. Mebbe 2 yen per point from the move....
I don't mind that styles give immunity. But perhaps the Yaks should have additional locations to make up for this. Signature Style IS presently two powers in one. +1 when the style is generated by you and full immunity when the style is generated by your opponent.
Vs. Signature Location which is +1 when the style is generated by you.
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