Sorcerer Fix - Continued from "D&D Rules" (PART 4)

[Tuzenbach]

I hereby decree that this thread should be *stickied* (is that even a word?) to the top of this page until the Summer Soltice.......or at least Beltane!

Khaalis has obvioulsy spent a lot of time and energy figuring out logical ways in which WotC *should have* presented the Sorcerer class. I suggest you all check out his nifty PDF. Thank you.

 

[fourthmensch]

Wow. I'm really impressed with the lineage sorcerer. I can't even express how vast an improvement over the core sorcerer this is.

Excellent work!

 

[Axegrrl]

I'm curious what discussion there's been about the whompin' amount of benefits given at 20th level. (Got a link?)

In the dragon lineage, for instance, you get most of the abilities of a half-dragon character -- the type, AC, special attacks, and special qualities -- with no level adjustment. The half-dragon character has a +3 LA. Even without the ability bonuses, hit dice bonuses, and regular attacks, I think the benefits at level 20 are equivalent to at least a +1 LA.

Are there any other classes that give you a big pile of benefits at 20th level that are not part of a steady, something-each-level progression?

I realize the 20th-level benefits are designed to keep the class attractive all the way through 20th level. But suppose I never expect the character to get that far, due to (say) finishing college, moving, etc. In that case, there's no incentive to go past 14th level in the class, when the fear effect gets refined and useful. (Speaking of which, the 8th-level version of same seems like it might be more of a handicap than a benefit, since it affects your friends as well as your foes....) My thought would be to spread that bunch of effects from 20th level out a bit.

 

[Mark Causey]

I've been following your dedicated work off and on for a while now, Khaalis. Forgive me, though, if I haven't read every post; if I'm being repetitive, then at least accept my praise!

I was going to comment on your description of Spells, specifically the first paragraph, last sentence. However, as I was writing this, I realized it was a direct quote from the PHB.

What a weird sentence structure. On first read it made it seem like clerics and wizards cast spontaneously. Anywho, I guess when you revise something like that, it's best to stick with what they wrote than to rewrite and confuse someone more.

Uhm, I've got a question for you. What prompted you to discard the 5/15 level Augment Familiar ability? I had a character concept based off of that alone ... I had imagined someone who was just a natural in the Wizard college, was so good in fact that he never needed his book to memorize his spells ... then one day his cat familiar grew fey-like wings, and he knew something was .. a little off.

Also, would you be willing to make another Lineage? I was thinking of something like this:

An experiment gone wrong long ago made a clone of a powerful spellcaster but he never had a chance to transfer his power and mind to within his new body. This new body eventually was discovered, and it was brought back to society ... years later, some people claim to be his descendent.

Thus, I was thinking about a Living Construct Lineage ...

Once again, if none of this is helpful, imagine it all as praises!

 

[Khaalis]

Hey all. Sorry I haven’t posted in a while, but I usually rely on the automated email system to let me know if someone has posted rather than coming to the boards, but for some reason none of the last 4 responses have triggered an email notification. Oh well… on with the replies.

First – Thanks for all the compliments. It is not just my idea, but a conglomerate of many people’s ideas and input. It is a far cry from where I started the class all those months back. Thanks to everyone for their continued support of the project.

Replies…

I'm curious what discussion there's been about the whompin' amount of benefits given at 20th level. (Got a link?) Are there any other classes that give you a big pile of benefits at 20th level that are not part of a steady, something-each-level progression?

As for a link, there are a few too many to list. The thread has been so long that going back to dig out all of the references would be difficult at best. It has been discussed. Some were for, some were against, but in general it was felt to be a decent balance as an inspiration to stay in the class, especially when weighed against the alternative PrC options. As for other classes, only the Monk gives a similar benefit (from the core classes), though various PrC’s do as well. This solution may not be the best alternative, but it is one I find attractive and at least makes a player “think about it” before dumping levels in sorcerer to another class.

In the end there is NO way to really inspire a class to remain single class until 20th level. Not with the attractiveness of PrCs and multiclassing in general. There are few who would not be better off, even with the “power level” of the 20th level transformations, NOT to take a PrC such as Incantrix, Archmage, Shadow Adept, etc. In the end it was basically decided that in 90% of the cases where “power level” is an issue, it is a mute point anyway since the character will be Optimized using PrC’s rather than the 20th level ability.

I notice in your comments below that you are weighing the class in terms of Character Optimization (ei: Power Design). It is correct that if you are going to abandon 20th level acquisition then there are “optimal” levels to aim for with the class. In most cases this depends on what you want out of the class and what you are “optimizing” with.

In the dragon lineage, for instance, you get most of the abilities of a half-dragon character -- the type, AC, special attacks, and special qualities -- with no level adjustment. The half-dragon character has a +3 LA. Even without the ability bonuses, hit dice bonuses, and regular attacks, I think the benefits at level 20 are equivalent to at least a +1 LA.
I realize the 20th-level benefits are designed to keep the class attractive all the way through 20th level. But suppose I never expect the character to get that far, due to (say) finishing college, moving, etc.
In that case, there's no incentive to go past 14th level in the class, when the fear effect gets refined and useful. (Speaking of which, the 8th-level version of same seems like it might be more of a handicap than a benefit, since it affects your friends as well as your foes....) My thought would be to spread that bunch of effects from 20th level out a bit.

Ok, lets look at the Dragon in a comparison. Most of these ideas were taken as inspiration from the Dragon Disciple PrC, but with the physical transformations (wings & natural weapons) removed for aesthetics purposes. I personally don’t like the “gross” (as in largely obvious) physical transformations in a class ability. It was also decided not to recreate the Dragon Disciple exactly, instead giving it something a bit different yet still distinctly draconic (thus the fear aura). As far as the LA, the Dragon Disciple as presented in the DMG/SRD shows the logic and validity of assigning a template without the LA as a class ability, and in my version, I don’t even grant the Flight, Blindsense, Natural Weapons, D12 HD, Bonus Spells, and Ability Score increases that the Dragon Disciple does. As much as I HATE to admit it, a Draconic Sorcerer is still actually almost better off taking 10 levels of the Dragon Disciple PrC or the ½-Dragon Template and burning those Sorcerer levels rather than attaining 20th level. This in and of itself makes it balanced in that 20th level in sorcerer is still the lesser option.

Draconic Lineage: At 20th level, a draconic sorcerer gains the following benefits.
• Gains the Dragon Type (Augmented Subtype) = No longer affected by “Humanoid” spells such as Charm Person, Enlarge Person, etc..
• Darkvision out to 60’ and Low-Light Vision.
• Gains a +4 natural armor bonus.
• Gains a Breath Weapon usable once per day that deals 6d8 points of damage (Ref DC 10 + 1/2 the sorcerer’s HD + the sorcerer’s Constitution modifier).
• Gains Immunity to magical sleep effects and paralysis effects and to one energy type based on lineage. (Black, Copper & Green = Acid; Blue & Bronze = Electricity; Brass, Gold & Red = Fire; Silver & White = Cold)

Half-Dragon Template (per SRD)
As Draconic Lineage… PLUS
• Natural Weapons: 2 Claws (Primary) + Bite (Secondary) allowing an attack routine of 3 Attacks at any level at +0/+0/-5 modifiers; Can also use standard weapon attack with a free secondary Claw and Bite attacks at -5 penalties on the claw/bite.
• Ability Increases: Strength +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2
• If Large: Gains Wings = Fly speed at double land speed)

Dragon Disciple (per SRD)
Dragon Apotheosis: At 10th level - acquires the Half-Dragon Template... PLUS
• Bonus Spells
• Wings – Regardless of Original Size
• Blindsense
• 10D12 HD

Uhm, I've got a question for you. What prompted you to discard the 5/15 level Augment Familiar ability? I had a character concept based off of that alone ... I had imagined someone who was just a natural in the Wizard college, was so good in fact that he never needed his book to memorize his spells ... then one day his cat familiar grew fey-like wings, and he knew something was .. a little off.

After much discussion on the topic of Familiars it was determined that one of the big issues most people have with the sorcerer is the familiar. Firstly, familiars are a long lost hold over to fantasy wizards due to Shakespeare and other such classic representations of the “Witch and her black cat”. It was also determined that the familiar for the most part (with the exception of certain lineages) should remain a boon to the wizard if for no other reason than by following the flavor text, sorcerers are not educated in the necessary arcane rituals needed to summon a familiar. Thus familiars were dropped for the most part.

Also, would you be willing to make another Lineage?

The system of design for this class was originally and specifically designed to allow for the new creation of lineages, similar to the template class designs by Monte Cook: the Witch, Champion and Totem Warrior.

I was thinking of something like this: An experiment gone wrong long ago made a clone of a powerful spellcaster but he never had a chance to transfer his power and mind to within his new body. This new body eventually was discovered, and it was brought back to society ... years later, some people claim to be his descendent. Thus, I was thinking about a Living Construct Lineage ...
Once again, if none of this is helpful, imagine it all as praises!

Living Constructs… hmmm. Sounds a bit like the Warforged from Eberron. Not sure you could do much with this as a lineage however…

The first things you have to ask are:

What is it to be of a Construct Lineage?
What or who is the progenitor (how did they come to exist)?
Are the sorcerers actually constructs or are they just descendents of a clone? If the remains of a clone – they wouldn’t really be constructs…
Are they magical experiments, or a cloning gone wrong? (Think Alias from Azure Bonds)
What makes them unique?
What properties do they have?
What magical affinities do they have?
What skill affinities fit the lineage?

As a base line from the SRD we have:
Construct Type: A construct is an animated object or artificially constructed creature.
Traits: A construct possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—No Constitution score.
—Low-light vision.
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
—Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease , death effects, and necromancy effects.
—Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.
—Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
—Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).
—Not at risk of death from massive damage. Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less.
—Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected.
—Because its body is a mass of unliving matter, a construct is hard to destroy. It gains bonus hit points based on size, as shown on the following table (Small 10, Medium 20, Large 30)
—Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry.
—Proficient with no armor.
—Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe.

However since it needs to be “Living” we could also look to the following as a guide:
Native Subtype: A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtype’s name). Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.

Compare this with the Warforged from Eberron:
Living Construct (Ex): A living construct is a subtype of construct, given sentience and free will through powerful and complex creation enchantments. A living construct is a sentient, artificially constructed creature that combines aspects of both constructs and living beings. As a living construct a warforged has the following features:
-A warforged gets its HD, BAB, Saves, and Skill Points from the class it selects.
-As a created life form, a warforged has a Constitution score.
-A warforged only has normal vision.
-As a living construct, spells that target constructs as well as those that target living creatures affect the warforged. Because of this, damage dealt can be healed by a cure light wounds spell or a repair light damage spell, and they are vulnerable to disable construct and harm. However, spells from the healing subschool provide only half effect for a warforged.
-Not immune to mind-affecting spells.
-Immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, disease, nausea, energy drain, fatigue and exhaustion.
-Not immune to death effects or necromancy effects, except those mentioned as immunities.
-0hp = disabled; -1 to -9 = inert.
-Does not heal naturally (only magically).
-Subject to criticals, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain.
-Does not need to eat, sleep, or breath; but can benefit from consumable magic.
-Can be raised or resurrected.

From here – what do you see as the core of the lineage?

Look forward to responses.

 

[Mark Causey]

Wow, I've been reading too much about Eberron. It's influencing my speech patterns :\

I believe I was looking for someone with a slightly alien mindset and strange abilities and the first thing I thought of was a clone. But, there are probably many more experiments on other kinds of creatures than just for the purpose of a replacement body (if the Monster Manuals and Fiend Folio are any evidence). Thus, I was actually looking for the descendents of magical experimentation on humanoid races, an Abberation.

Aberration Type: An aberration has a bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three.

Traits: An aberration possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

—Darkvision out to 60 feet.

—Proficient with its natural weapons. If generally humanoid in form, proficient with all simple weapons and any weapon it is described as using.

—Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Aberrations not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Aberrations are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.

—Aberrations eat, sleep, and breathe.

So, the core concept of having Aberration Ancestry would be one of the three defining characteristics of an Aberration Type.

Aberrant Lineage: Aberrant sorcerers are the descendant of a magical experiment that had no obvious effects on the subject, who was thus released back into society, or possibly rescued, and continued their lives as normally as they could. Further generations bore out a subtle arcane energy within themselves, and their lineage bore sorcerers. Aberrant sorcerers of whatever base race find others of their 'kind' and most other humanoids to be strange and somewhat alien. They seek to understand more about themselves and the alien world they live in. These sorcerers gain the following abilities and restrictions:

Benefits: Aberrant sorcerers gain an inherent +1 bonus to Sense Motive and Gather Information checks as they often practice at learning who is doing what and why. However, as they bear more arcane energy from within than can be handled under normal circumstances, it focuses itself in ways almost as alien as the sorcerer themself. Aberrant sorcerers can make a Confusing Gaze a number of times per day equal to 3 + sorcerer's Cha modifier.

[Confusing Gaze (Su): Any creature within 30 feet that meets the sorcerer's gaze is affected as if by confusion (caster level equal to sorcerer's caster level; Will DC 15 negates)]

Finally, Sorcerers can manipulate magical energy much in the way that their ancestors were manipulated. They are able to choose any spell from the Abjuration or Transmutation schools.

Special Limitation: Aberrant sorcerers are heavily influenced by the will and energies used to create their ancestor, and through that chaotic will, they must always be Chaotic, and this shows in their Aura as well. Aberrant sorcerers can never use any item or spell that has the Law descriptor. Any Aberrant sorcerer that pushes themselves to other alignments along the Law-Chaos axis find that they are suppressing the mystical energy within themselves and can never progress in the Sorcerer class again. Also, Aberrant sorcerers find their minds somewhat malleable to others and suffer a -2 penalty against Mind Affecting spells and effects, and have trouble with Illusions, never receiving the +4 bonus from communication from others that an illusion is present.

Lineage Spells: The Aberrant sorcerer has a specific affinity with aberrant magic that manifests in a Lineage Spell List. These Lineage spells may never be changed through spell swapping or through spell evolution, but only through Innate Ability Evolution. These Lineage Spells are gained as bonus known spells as soon as the sorcerer is able to cast spells of that level. The sorcerer gains the Aberrant Lineage spell list. Aberrant Lineage Spell List: 0 - Flare, 1 - Endure Elements, 2 - Spider Climb, 3 - Fly, 4 - Stoneskin, 5 - Telekinesis, 6 - Transformation, 7 - Spell Turning, 8 - Iron Body, 9 - Freedom.

Lineage Abilities: The Aberrant sorcerer's connection with the chaotic magic within themselves becomes stronger as they become more attuned with their own volatile natures, and that of others. At 8th Level, the sorcerer gains the feat Arcane Strike (Complete Warrior) for free, as they can tap into their internal mutable energy and bring it forth in unusual ways. At 14th Level, the sorcerer's heritage becomes much more evident as some part of the experiment comes forth in the form of a natural attack which deals damage per the sorcerer's size. The sorcerer can choose to gain one of the following: Bite, Claw, Gore, Slam or Talon. Once chosen, this can never be reversed. The sorcerer also gains the Weapon Focus feat for their natural attack. Note, Arcane Strike can be made through the natural weapon attack. At 20th Level, the sorcerer's heritage transforms her fully, and she changes type to Aberrant (no change in Hit Die, BAB, or skill points is made). This leaves them immune to any spell that targets humanoids only, and they also gain Darkvision out to 60'. The swirling arcane energies within them lash out at other magic and grant her Spell Resistance of 30 and her body's transformation finalizes with granting her Damage Resistance of 15/Law.

How's that?

AtR

 

[Khaalis]

I believe I was looking for someone with a slightly alien mindset and strange abilities and the first thing I thought of was a clone. But, there are probably many more experiments on other kinds of creatures than just for the purpose of a replacement body (if the Monster Manuals and Fiend Folio are any evidence). Thus, I was actually looking for the descendents of magical experimentation on humanoid races, an Abberation.
Aberration Type: An aberration has a bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three.
Traits: An aberration possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—Proficient with its natural weapons. If generally humanoid in form, proficient with all simple weapons and any weapon it is described as using.
—Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Aberrations not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Aberrations are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
—Aberrations eat, sleep, and breathe.

So, the core concept of having Aberration Ancestry would be one of the three defining characteristics of an Aberration Type.

So basically a Magical Experiment lineage?
The problem I have is how this works. Considering some SRD Aberrations = Aboleth, Athach, Choker, Chuul, Cloaker, Drider, Ethereal Filcher, Ettercap, Gibbering Mouther, Grick, Otyugh, Phasm, Rust Monster, Skum.

How would these be introduced into a humanoid sorcerer? Wouldn’t Monstrous Humanoid be more fitting? Something more along the lines of experiments with: Centaur, Gargoyle, Grimlock, Hag, Harpy, etc? Just trying to get a better picture of where/how/why the lineage exists. It mostly comes down to semantics but the application of the correct type is a bit important.

Monstrous Humanoid Type: Monstrous humanoids are similar to humanoids, but with monstrous or animalistic features. They often have magical abilities as well.
Traits: A monstrous humanoid possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—Proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
—Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Monstrous humanoids not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Monstrous humanoids are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
—Monstrous humanoids eat, sleep, and breathe.

Aberrant Lineage: Aberrant sorcerers are the descendant of a magical experiment that had no obvious effects on the subject, who was thus released back into society, or possibly rescued, and continued their lives as normally as they could. Further generations bore out a subtle arcane energy within themselves, and their lineage bore sorcerers. Aberrant sorcerers of whatever base race find others of their 'kind' and most other humanoids to be strange and somewhat alien. They seek to understand more about themselves and the alien world they live in. These sorcerers gain the following abilities and restrictions:

What is it that is making them Aberrant? How are they alien?

Benefits: Aberrant sorcerers gain an inherent +1 bonus to Sense Motive and Gather Information checks as they often practice at learning who is doing what and why.

If they are of alien mindset, wouldn’t they have a harder time with these skills? I would think that a good Restriction for them would be that all Social Skills suffered a penalty due to their alien nature which would influence their dealings with others.

I could see gaining Survival as a class skill and a +1 to Intimidate skill checks. Survival because they are used to being on their own and fending for themselves. The +1 to intimidate due to their strangeness and alienisms.

However, as they bear more arcane energy from within than can be handled under normal circumstances, it focuses itself in ways almost as alien as the sorcerer themself. Aberrant sorcerers can make a Confusing Gaze a number of times per day equal to 3 + sorcerer's Cha modifier.
[Confusing Gaze (Su): Any creature within 30 feet that meets the sorcerer's gaze is affected as if by confusion (caster level equal to sorcerer's caster level; Will DC 15 negates)]

I would make the save scaling rather than static, such as (Will DC 10 + ½ the sorcerer’s level + sorcerer’s Charisma modifier / Negates).

Finally, Sorcerers can manipulate magical energy much in the way that their ancestors were manipulated. They are able to choose any spell from the Abjuration or Transmutation schools.

Need to add … “regardless of the spell list they come from.” to the end.

Why these schools? I would lean more toward Abjuration and Illusion.

Examples of Transmutation and Abjuration (non-Wiz) from SRD A-L: Air Walk, Align Weapon, Animal Shapes, Animate Objects, Animate Plants, Antilife Shell, Antiplant Shell, Atonement, Awaken, Barkskin, Bless Water, Bless Weapon, Changestaff, Chill Metal, Cloak of Chaos, Command Plants, Control Plants, Control Winds, Diminish Plants, Dispel Chaos, Dispel Evil, Dispel Good, Dispel Law, Disrupting Weapon, Entangle, Entropic Shield, Forbiddance, Freedom of Movement, Giant Vermin, Glibness, Glyph of Warding, Glyph of Warding-Greater, Goodberry, Heat Metal, Hide from Animals, Hide from Undead, Holy Aura, Ironwood, Liveoak, Longstrider…

Special Limitation: Aberrant sorcerers are heavily influenced by the will and energies used to create their ancestor, and through that chaotic will, they must always be Chaotic, and this shows in their Aura as well. Aberrant sorcerers can never use any item or spell that has the Law descriptor. Any Aberrant sorcerer that pushes themselves to other alignments along the Law-Chaos axis find that they are suppressing the mystical energy within themselves and can never progress in the Sorcerer class again. Also, Aberrant sorcerers find their minds somewhat malleable to others and suffer a -2 penalty against Mind Affecting spells and effects, and have trouble with Illusions, never receiving the +4 bonus from communication from others that an illusion is present.

Ok, this is the first mention of the influence of Chaos. This should be more clearly defined in the original description. I would say that the general feel of this is that they are almost more of a Chaos Extraplanar influence, kind of a Chaos Sorcerer. This would lean me to the Outsider/Native more so than Aberration.
Also why the penalty on Mind-Affecting effects and Illusions? Being alien and chaotic in nature I would think it harder to influence their minds and harder to influence them with illusions. Illusions are based on a basic understanding of what the viewer expects. For example, an Illusory door is made to look like oak with iron bindings and hinges because that is what most expect to see. However, someone that is rather alien may not expect that, thus would be harder to predict what they expect and thus harder to fool with illusions. Also considering the chaotic bent, Illusion fits very well with that aspect.

I would however give them a substantial penalty on Divination magic (such as casting at -1 caster level) as it is harder for them to understand that which they see and hear, as well as probably disallowing any Charm denominated spells as they just do not have the social understanding to control other’s minds. Being quite alien I would also give the afore mentioned social penalties as well. I would also have them suffer the standard listed penalties against the banned LAW denominator.

Lineage Spells: The Aberrant sorcerer has a specific affinity with aberrant magic that manifests in a Lineage Spell List. These Lineage spells may never be changed through spell swapping or through spell evolution, but only through Innate Ability Evolution. These Lineage Spells are gained as bonus known spells as soon as the sorcerer is able to cast spells of that level. The sorcerer gains the Aberrant Lineage spell list. Aberrant Lineage Spell List: 0 - Flare, 1 - Endure Elements, 2 - Spider Climb, 3 - Fly, 4 - Stoneskin, 5 - Telekinesis, 6 - Transformation, 7 - Spell Turning, 8 - Iron Body, 9 - Freedom.

Why these spells? I would have leaned more toward the chaotic/alien aspect…
0 - prestidigitation, 1 – lesser confusion, 2 - misdirection, 3 – blink (or displacement), 4 - confusion, 5 - mislead, 6 - repulsion, 7 - spell turning, 8 – cloak of chaos, 9 – freedom (or storm of vengeance)

Lineage Abilities: The Aberrant sorcerer's connection with the chaotic magic within themselves becomes stronger as they become more attuned with their own volatile natures, and that of others. At 8th Level, the sorcerer gains the feat Arcane Strike (Complete Warrior) for free, as they can tap into their internal mutable energy and bring it forth in unusual ways.

Great ability, but why? From a Gaze Attack at 1st to Arcane Strike at 8th? I am not sure where this fits in with the Aberration or Chaos aspects.

At 14th Level, the sorcerer's heritage becomes much more evident as some part of the experiment comes forth in the form of a natural attack which deals damage per the sorcerer's size. The sorcerer can choose to gain one of the following: Bite, Claw, Gore, Slam or Talon. Once chosen, this can never be reversed. The sorcerer also gains the Weapon Focus feat for their natural attack. Note, Arcane Strike can be made through the natural weapon attack.

I can understand that this is from a Physical Transformation into an aberration. I personally am not a fan of permanent physical transformations but I can see where this is coming from. Kind of like the Oozemaster, Geomancer, Dragon Disciple, etc. If you stuck with this aspect, I would limit it to Claws (Talon is the same thing), Slam and Gore (with the appropriate physical changes for Claws and Gore). I would also fully detail this section with the exact specifics of the damage by size category, whether it is considered armed or unarmed attack, etc. Instead of Weapon Focus, I might think about Monk’s Ki Strike (magic) as you are trying to make the class reliant on their natural form as a weapon.

At 20th Level, the sorcerer's heritage transforms her fully, and she changes type to Aberrant (no change in Hit Die, BAB, or skill points is made). This leaves them immune to any spell that targets humanoids only, and they also gain Darkvision out to 60'. The swirling arcane energies within them lash out at other magic and grant her Spell Resistance of 30 and her body's transformation finalizes with granting her Damage Resistance of 15/Law.

For these I would go with:
* Darkvision 60’
* Damage Reduction 10/law
* SR 30
* Ki Strike increases to magic and Chaos.

Just my humble thoughts. Hope it helps you to solidify your idea. Overall my personal impression would almost be that they are Slaad Lineage.

 

[Ferret]

The first paragraph or so on the shapechanger lineage split it between were's and other shape changers, "Shifter sorcerers are the descendant of a
natural shapeshifter such as a doppelganger or were-creature far in
their family's past. These sorcerers gain the following abilities and
restrictions."

Yet non of the abilities are suited to anything other then a Were creature's descendent.

Why not a lunar lineage that is seperate?

 

[Mark Causey]

Also why the penalty on Mind-Affecting effects and Illusions? Being alien and chaotic in nature I would think it harder to influence their minds and harder to influence them with illusions. Illusions are based on a basic understanding of what the viewer expects.

I had originally imagined the alien mindset as making the individual unable to distinguish between these weird people here and that weird looking wall there, but I can see your point about it being based off of expectation.

Let's try this again:

Chaotic Lineage: Chaotic sorcerers are the descendant of one of many possiblities that have led to them being an arcane receptacle of chaotic energies. Possibilities include some distant magical experiment with Chaos magic or conception occurring on the Plane of Chaos; but most likely the Chaos Sorcerer has a direct line of descent from Chaotic Outsiders. However the sorcerer has found herself here, she and others like her share some common characteristics that include finding others of their 'kind' and most other humanoids to be strange and somewhat alien. These self-same humanoids find her alien and somewhat apprehensive, as well, although they probably have no solid idea why. Still, the Chaos sorcerer seek to understand more about themselves and the alien world they live in. These sorcerers gain the following abilities and restrictions:

Benefits: Chaos sorcerers gain an inherent Survival as a class skill and a +1 to Intimidate skill checks. Often, they find themselves out on their own, fending for themselves. Their alien qualities lend themselves to Intimidation, whether intentional or not. They bear their arcane energy closer to the surface than most other spellcasters, and while that energy from within can usually be handled under most circumstances, it focuses itself in ways almost as alien as the sorcerer themself. Chaos sorcerers can make a Lesser Confusing Gaze a number of times per day equal to 3 + sorcerer's Cha modifier.

[Lesser Confusing Gaze (Su): Any creature within 30 feet that meets the sorcerer's gaze is affected as if by lesser confusion (caster level equal to sorcerer's caster level; Will DC 10 + ½ the sorcerer’s level + sorcerer’s Charisma modifier / Will negates)]

Finally, Chaos sorcerers can manipulate magical energy in a Chaotic fashion and find that they are able to choose any spell from the Abjuration and Illusion schools, regardless of the spell list.

Special Limitation: Chaos sorcerers are heavily influenced by the nature of their ancestor or the nature of the experiment, and because of that Chaotic heritage, they must always be Chaotic, and this shows in their Aura as well. Chaos sorcerers can never use any item or spell that has the Law descriptor. Any Chaos sorcerer that pushes themselves to other alignments along the Law-Chaos axis find that they are suppressing the mystical energy within themselves and can never progress in the Sorcerer class again. Also, Chaos sorcerers find their personalities alien to others and suffer a -2 penalty against on all Social skills, except for Intimidate, which they excel at, willingly or unwillingly. They have trouble with Divination, never having a good mental reference for what they see or hear, suffering a -1 caster level on these spells.

Lineage Spells: The Chaos sorcerer has a specific affinity with chaos magic that manifests in a Lineage Spell List. These Lineage spells may never be changed through spell swapping or through spell evolution, but only through Innate Ability Evolution. These Lineage Spells are gained as bonus known spells as soon as the sorcerer is able to cast spells of that level. The sorcerer gains the Aberrant Lineage spell list. Chaotic Lineage Spell List: 0 - Prestidigitation, 1 – Lesser confusion, 2 - Misdirection, 3 – Displacement, 4 - Confusion, 5 - Mislead, 6 - Repulsion, 7 - Spell turning, 8 – Cloak of Chaos, 9 – Freedom.

Lineage Abilities: The Chaos sorcerer's connection with the chaotic magic within themselves becomes stronger as they become more attuned with their own volatile natures, and that of others. At 8th Level, the sorcerer's Lesser Confusing Gaze becomes a Confusing Gaze, with the creature affected as per the spell, Confusion. The sorcerer can choose, if they wish, to downgrade their Gaze to Lesser Confusion at the time of the Gaze. At 14th Level, the sorcerer's Gaze symbolizes their true Chaotic power and becomes a Gaze of Insanity, with the creature affected as per the spell, Insanity. The sorcerer can choose, if they wish, to downgrade their Gaze to Lesser Confusion or Confusion at the time of the Gaze. At 20th Level, the sorcerer's heritage transforms her fully. Her soul and her body merge to become one unit, and she changes type to Outsider (Chaotic, Native), but no change in Hit Die, BAB, or skill points is made. This leaves her immune to any spell that targets humanoids only, and she also gains Darkvision out to 60'. The swirling arcane energies within them lash out at other magic and grant her Spell Resistance of 30 and her body's transformation finalizes with granting her Damage Resistance of 10/Law.

How's that?

AtR

 

[Imret]

After much discussion on the topic of Familiars it was determined that one of the big issues most people have with the sorcerer is the familiar. Firstly, familiars are a long lost hold over to fantasy wizards due to Shakespeare and other such classic representations of the “Witch and her black cat”. It was also determined that the familiar for the most part (with the exception of certain lineages) should remain a boon to the wizard if for no other reason than by following the flavor text, sorcerers are not educated in the necessary arcane rituals needed to summon a familiar. Thus familiars were dropped for the most part.

Been lurking the thread for a while - significantly impressed, by the way. Some serious work has been put into this, obviously, and it's not only well thought-out, it's distinctive enough to not make the sorcerer "bookless wizards". But I just wanted to drop my two cents on this.


I recognize I may be in the minority on this, but I've always been a little stuck on the wizard getting a familiar. The wizard learns his arcane talents in relative isolation, learning to weave the patterns of the world into a form useful to him, where the sorcerer does the same by force of personality. It just seems a little more logical, to me, that the caster whose personal magnetism powers his magic gains the aid of a small animal, drawn to him by the vagaries of magic and changing as his power grows.

If one uses the "familiars must be bound by a specific ritual" formula, then it should be a wizard-only trait. If the animal's connection to the caster is less clearly defined, my own mind leans towards sorcerer-only.

But I suppose it is a sacred cow, so to speak, and it's hard to find something to give to wizards in place of it. The item familiar concept is neat, but...animals can run away. This can be incredibly important, if one's DM is malicious.

/hijack

But yeah. Anyway. Great work!