speed + haste question

[trimeulose]

Ok so I have two weapons that each have speed. Our group has ruled that each weapon recieves an extra attack. My question is if I am hasted and have two weapons of speed would I be able to recieve the extra +4 to armor (but not the extra partial action) from the haste, but still get the extra two attacks (one for each weapon) from the speed?

 

[Dr. Zoom]

IMO, yes. The speed weapon does not stack with haste. You cannot make an extra attack with the speed weapon and get an extra partial action from haste in the same round. It is one or the other. The other benefits of haste should work normally, however.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

The description of the weapon states outright that it does not stack with haste, but that means as well that two weapons of speed would not stack with each other. Not insult your groups ruling, I know I'd enjoy it.

So, going by your groups ruling, you would get +4 AC, 1 1/2 times jump, and 1), an extra partial action for anything, OR 2), The two attacks with the weapons of speed.

 

[kreynolds]

IMO, yes. The speed weapon does not stack with haste. You cannot make an extra attack with the speed weapon and get an extra partial action from haste in the same round. It is one or the other. The other benefits of haste should work normally, however.

I'll second that.

 

[KarinsDad]

The description of the weapon states outright that it does not stack with haste, but that means as well that two weapons of speed would not stack with each other. Not insult your groups ruling, I know I'd enjoy it.

Well, it states that it is not cummulative with Haste. I guess that is open to interpretation, but basically the rest of the description talks about the extra partial action of Haste and the extra partial attack by the weapon. That seems to be the focus, so that is probably what is meant as not cummulative.

There are no rules there for two weapons of speed not being useable at the same time. Each gives an extra attack with that weapon, just like two flaming weapons give their flame power to an attack from the individual weapon.

It does not state that they are not cummulative with each other, it states that they are not cummulative with Haste.

So, going by your groups ruling, you would get +4 AC, 1 1/2 times jump, and 1), an extra partial action for anything, OR 2), The two attacks with the weapons of speed.

This is how I would rule as well.

Each weapon gives an extra attack for that weapon. Nothing to indicate that they are mutually exclusive.

Each weapon should only get the extra attack when Hasted if the extra partial action for Haste is not taken.

So, with two weapons of speed, you get:

1) All aspects of Haste, nothing from the weapons OR
2) All aspects of Haste except the extra partial action and a partial attack from each weapon.

Your choice.

If not hasted, you get an extra partial attack from each weapon each round.

 

[Wolf72]

so ... use the weapon properties to get your extra attack ... then do an irish jig with your extra partial action?

 

[Dr. Zoom]

No. If you use the speed weapon to get an extra attack, that counts as your extra partial action. You do not get another for haste. That is what is meant by the two not stacking together. Conversely, if you use your extra partial action from haste, you cannot get an extra attack with your speed weapon that round.

 

[Wolf72]

ah, okay.

I thought it meant that you could not use the partail action for more attacks if your weapon already gave it to you.

thanks!

 

[BigAl]

I believe that the "does not stack with haste" description of the speed weapon enhancement in the DMG means that you cannot take the extra attack with both your regular action AND your partial action.

I can understand some DMs insisting that the extra attack must be taken during the regular action, but this is splitting hairs.

This makes a lot more sense than saying to a player "Well, you can cast a spell, drink a potion or do anything else you want, but you can't take an attack with your weapon during your partial action". Remember, this is a +4 price modifier!

They should have been less ambiguous: simply stating that it doesn't stack with haste invites misinterpretation.

- Al

 

[Trine]

The extra attack from a Speed weapon is effectively granting you an extra partial action to use for attacking.

What does Haste spell do (which is a prerequisite for the Speed property)? It grants, among other bonuses, an extra partial action.

Since both are haste bonuses, the two extra partial actions would not stack. Then again, following that reasoning, two Speed weapons would not let you make extra attacks with both, you could do one or the other, but not both.

I gotta stop thinking.