Spelljammer [Spelljammer] Illithid to Remain "100% bad guys" -- Neogi maybe not?

[grimslade]

Glad we live in a world where cannibalsm of sentient beings is not a hot button issue.

Don't yuck my yum. Donner Dinner party is a lifestyle.

A blatant depiction of slavery is out, but the conclusion of a monster with a mind control ability named Enslave is not eliminated. Neogi favor humanoids as food more than servants. Umber Hulks are the perfect eel-spider Au Pair. In older editions, Neogi enslaved individuals through repeated doses of their venom. It gets around the 1/rest Enslave combat ability. Compulsion is going to always be icky and is usually done hamfisted.
As for Illithid being 'E' vil, they feed solely on sentient creatures. In much of the lore, they feed on the memories and emotions more than the base grey matter. You are going to have a hard time making them good, but if the Mind Flayers had negotiated a non-predatory compact inside a Wildspace System to have access to trade and resupply, they could be 'neutral'. Creepy and terrifying, but neutral. Maybe illithid would sell contracts to individuals to have full and exciting lives for a number of years before the contract comes due, then Slurp! Or ethical farming, with free-range halflings, frolicking and playing on idyllic curated worlds until the Illithid hand select 'Bobby' to be Sunday brunch.

 

[Voadam]

Or ethical farming, with free-range halflings, frolicking and playing on idyllic curated worlds until the Illithid hand select 'Bobby' to be Sunday brunch.

Or a Logan's Run situation where they have nice factory farm colonies where everybody gets nice things and good quality of life until they hit 30 or whatever, then they are farmed.

I wouldn't term it ethical farming however or say this really makes them not evil.

 

[Shardstone]

I think the idea is just to open the door for DMs to tell more kinds of stories. Some DMs might want a Mindflayer NPC in it to help the party, or a neogi. Many might not. Its just saying, this option exists for you to do it, don't worry about breaking the lore. Because as we see in this thread, people get mad when you break the lore.

 

[grimslade]

Or a Logan's Run situation where they have nice factory farm colonies where everybody gets nice things and good quality of life until they hit 30 or whatever, then they are farmed.

I wouldn't term it ethical farming however or say this really makes them not evil.

Right. It makes them less mustache (tentacle?) twirling Evil and merely evil. To the chicken, the farmer is diabolical.

 

[Voadam]

Mind flayers as NPCs just there where they are not actively hunting the party and you don't see them feeding have been a part of the game for a long time. I believe there are mindflayer advisers to drow at some point in the early 1e D series of modules where you might fight them or socially interact with them.

I believe you could trade or interact with mind flayers in the underdark or in 2e spelljammer, but they were still powerful smart dangerous evil creatures who consumed sentient brains for sustenance and had mind control powers.

 

[Scribe]

Some DMs might want a Mindflayer NPC in it to help the party, or a neogi. Many might not. Its just saying, this option exists for you to do it, don't worry about breaking the lore.

Of course, this has been possible for the entire history of the game, and is explicitly stated in the core 5e books...

 

[delericho]

Of course, this has been possible for the entire history of the game, and is explicitly stated in the core 5e books...

Yep. And even if it was clearly stated in the lore that they were absolutely and without exception evil... the DM still has the right to change it.

 

[Havrik Stoneskimmer]

Or a Logan's Run situation where they have nice factory farm colonies where everybody gets nice things and good quality of life until they hit 30 or whatever, then they are farmed.

I wouldn't term it ethical farming however or say this really makes them not evil.

That is basically how they are depicted in Realmspace. On their planet, Glyth, they have ranches of "brain cattle" humanoids that basically live their entire lives there, and are well educated (because smarter brains taste better). Intelligence tests determine who is allowed to breed, so as to enhance the flavor of the stock over time. The "brain cattle" don't even realize they are being preyed upon and think the illithids are a race of teachers. (Except for a small band of freedom fighters, the "Free Thinkers Union" that hide in underground passages and sabotage the mind flayers when possible.)

The mind flayers probably think this makes them much more benevolent, seeing as they aren't just randomly killing people and eating their brains. They have a "civilized" approach to their nutrition. Maybe there's a parable about factory farming and vegetarianism going on here?

 

[Scribe]

That is basically how they are depicted in Realmspace. On their planet, Glyth, they have ranches of "brain cattle" humanoids that basically live their entire lives there, and are well educated (because smarter brains taste better). Intelligence tests determine who is allowed to breed, so as to enhance the flavor of the stock over time. The "brain cattle" don't even realize they are being preyed upon and think the illithids are a race of teachers. (Except for a small band of freedom fighters, the "Free Thinkers Union" that hide in underground passages and sabotage the mind flayers when possible.)

The mind flayers probably think this makes them much more benevolent, seeing as they aren't just randomly killing people and eating their brains. They have a "civilized" approach to their nutrition. Maybe there's a parable about factory farming and vegetarianism going on here?

This comes up each time Mind Layers are discussed, but the concept that we can raise other living creatures to slaughter and consume at our leisure?

Well to me, the ethical argument for veganism is the most compelling.

 

[Mind of tempest]

This comes up each time Mind Layers are discussed, but the concept that we can raise other living creatures to slaughter and consume at our leisure?

Well to me, the ethical argument for veganism is the most compelling.

personally, it does not work for me as I use the same math to indicate it is morally irrelevant as all life profits from killing other life often in large quantities thus it may be life is by nature immoral, I hate mindflayers because they try to eat me and dying painfully is not on my to-do list, now if the painfully part could be subtracted.