spells you think are the wrong level

[Gold Roger]

I sometimes think evocations do a bit to much damage on most levels. Really one lucky evocation can end a fight between equal powers in one round.

 

[Sejs]

Magic lets you do more than attacking with a weapon or using mundane skills would normally allow, and should thus be removed.

 

[pawsplay]

Magic missile should really be 2nd level, be limited to one missile, or require a ranged attack roll.

 

[Lucias]

Spider Climb has been my favorite first level spell since I started playing back in the early 90's.

They moved it to second level in 3.5.

I am not happy about that in the slightest.

 

[Zweihänder]

Spider Climb is the best and most powerful spell ever. It needs to be an Epic spell to be balanced.

Seriously, though? Sleep. It's obscenely strong for a first-level spell. I'd go so far as to say it is the strongest first-level spell in the PHB. Think about it: at lower levels, it's common to be ambushed by a horde of wusses. Sleep takes out between 3 and 5 of those wusses. And I DO mean "takes out"; any competent party will either coup de grace them or hog-tie them before they wake up. The only first-level spell with comparable removal is Burning Hands, and even then... well, comparable is an awfully strong word.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Spider Climb is the best and most powerful spell ever. It needs to be an Epic spell to be balanced.

Seriously, though? Sleep. It's obscenely strong for a first-level spell. I'd go so far as to say it is the strongest first-level spell in the PHB. Think about it: at lower levels, it's common to be ambushed by a horde of wusses. Sleep takes out between 3 and 5 of those wusses. And I DO mean "takes out"; any competent party will either coup de grace them or hog-tie them before they wake up. The only first-level spell with comparable removal is Burning Hands, and even then... well, comparable is an awfully strong word.

You may want to reread Sleep again--I can't see how it can possibly take out 5 creatures. It does 4 HD, and that's it.

Compare to Colour Spray, which is far more powerful. The spell Colour Spray pretty much single-handedly won the first two adventures of Shackled City for our party.

 

[taliesin15]

Nerfing some of these spells is one generally good suggestion...one thing I heard someone using in their campaign was similar to the idea of a limited invisibility at lower levels...in there, spellcasters had limited chance of Summoning Monsters/Animals...conversely, they could try to Summon a higher level monster, just at a prohibitive chance. On the order of a mid level Mage having a 1% chance of summoning a CR12+ Demon/Dragon/Devil etc. But the kicker is there's a greater chance of being able to Summon *PART* of the monster, like a 4% chance that the Dragon's head only appears for 6 rounds, obviously then being able to use breath weapon. I understand that the only time this happened, the leg of a demon showed up, so it was pretty useless. And comical.

I'm thinking the Blur idea is good for a lower lvl Invisibility, perhaps a Partial Invisibility, more effective in the dark or shadowy areas.

I'm wondering if Sleep couldn't be modified too--like there's a 40% chance that the 4HD worth of Monsters simply get Sleepy. Maybe there would be a higher chance of them getting Sleepy than falling completely Asleep, especially the lower lvl of the Mage respectively. One could say this makes them slower on initiative, saves, hitting, damage, and running away. Perhaps slurs their speech?

Of course, the thing is I think ethically DMs need to work this all out before the new players start the campaign. This way the players know the parameters before character design. Maybe it goes without saying, but I always point out the odd things I do (like not allowing crossbows of any sort) IMC.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'm wondering if Sleep couldn't be modified too--like there's a 40% chance that the 4HD worth of Monsters simply get Sleepy. Maybe there would be a higher chance of them getting Sleepy than falling completely Asleep, especially the lower lvl of the Mage respectively. One could say this makes them slower on initiative, saves, hitting, damage, and running away. Perhaps slurs their speech?

Uhhh...there's already likely to be around a 50% chance that the spell does nothing to a particular target anyway--unlike in 2e when there was no save, there's that Will Negates thing going.

 

[Enkhidu]

I think you can make the arguement that about 50% of the spells in the PHB are lower level than they should be based on the (now) accepted rate of advancement. I also think that it's just this side of impossible to have a discussion about spell levels without talking about the advancement rate.

 

[taliesin15]

Uhhh...there's already likely to be around a 50% chance that the spell does nothing to a particular target anyway--unlike in 2e when there was no save, there's that Will Negates thing going.

check, of course...I'm just saying that this way the lower level spells might have a higher chance of something in between complete failure and success. Another example would be magic missiles that don't cause hit point damage, but could disrupt an opposing spellcaster.