Spontaneous casting 'cost'

[Coredump]

One of my players came to me, wondering about using a higher level slot for a lower level spell.
I said, sure, of course. But they discovered he wanted to be able to spontaneously do it.

My players (particularly this one) are pretty good about not powergaming, and if I tell them they can use it, but not abuse it, they are good about it.

So, my initial thought was to allow it at a -2 level penalty. So he can spontaneously cast a 1st level spell, if he 'trades' out a 3rd level spell.

What do you think, about fair? Too harsh? too easy? What pitfalls should I watch out for?

 

[Nifft]

Do you mean, spontaneously convert one or more prepared spells into a different (lower-level) spell?

I think that's fantastically too powerful. I'd charge at least Feat to do that, and only with a list of spells that I, the DM, determine to be okay.

Prepared spellcasters have massive strategic benefits over spontaneous casters, in trade for tactical disadvantages. Don't give this guy both without a hefty charge.

-- N

 

[Coredump]

Do you mean, spontaneously convert one or more prepared spells into a different (lower-level) spell?

Yes.

Don't give this guy both without a hefty charge.

You don't think the loss of a spell 2 levels higher is a hefty charge?

 

[Khuxan]

What class character is this? The situation is different for each class. I'd let rangers, paladins and bards do it at a -2 level penalty, and clerics, wizards and druids with a -3 penalty.

 

[Nifft]

You don't think the loss of a spell 2 levels higher is a hefty charge?

The ability to turn a useless prepared spell into a useful spell (of lower level) is a net gain. A very big gain.

I think there was a Feat somewhere called "Signature Spell" which allowed required Spell Mastery, and allowed you to select one 'mastered' spell which you could then convert higher-level prepared spells into.

That's not a bad baseline -- one Feat, one spell. Adding in Spell Mastery weakens it a bit.

Cheers, -- N

 

[TheRelinquished]

I'm sorry to say this, but that really is too powerful. No character who prepares their spells should be able to spontaneously convert a spell into something else unless it's in their class description (i.e. Druid, Cleric, etc.). The only core classes with the option of changing any higher level spell into a lower level spell (without taking a feat) are the Bard and the Sorcerer, which are both spontaneous casters.

You must realize that even with the penalty, this negates the balance between (primarily) Sorcerers and Wizards. Sorcerers have a small selection of spells which they can cast more often, without preparation, and even using higher level slots to cast lower level spells. Wizards have an infinite potential spell selection, but cannot cast as many per day, and require study to memorize the spells.

While I agree that a 13th level Wizard with Int 18 could use all of his 25 (non-0 lvl.) slots to prepare Magic Missiles for any ungodly reason, so long as he did it beforehand, there is absolutely no precedence to allow him to convert all of those slots into Magic Missiles spontaneously (once again, feats aside).

Sadly, it's probably best to disappoint your player, and inform him that he must either take a feat chain, or roll up a sorcerer.

 

[Coredump]

Heh, part of what makes this difficult for me is the player in question. I could give him unlimited power, and be confident he would keep things reasonable... but I think I see the point a little better. (The Magic Missle example really hit home for me.)

Okay, so how can I limit this to make it more reasonable? I would love to hear restrictions, or feat suggestions, or whatever...

 

[TheRelinquished]

I've been thinking about it, and researching the idea, but I don't really see a way that it works. I thought perhaps that if you made a feat that branched off of Spell Mastery to allow you to cast one of the selected spells spontaneously (but at a higher level) then that would work.

However, I wondered if that could overcome spell preparation. I looked into the definition of spell preparation in the Player's Handbook and found out exactly what the process involves:

It consists of a series of mental exercises, guided by the Wizard's spellbook, which begin the casting of the spell. An interruption point is then reached, where the Wizard can stop casting, leaving the energy of the prepared spell ready to be realeased with a few final movements, and/or words, and/or materials. Thus the spell can be completed at any time by the caster quickly, and even in the harshest environments (i.e. the middle of a battlefield).

Going by this definition, it would stand to reason that no Wizard, however powerful or feat endowed, could possibly cast a spontaneous spell unless through multiclassing or plain ol' Deus Ex Machina.

But I did not stop there! No! I deliberated further, and came up with a possible solution to the problem. Perhaps a feat could be made which was linked to Spell Mastery which would allow for spontaneous preparation...

Spontaneous Preparation [General]
Prerequisites: ability to prepare and cast arcane spells, Spell Mastery of the chosen spell, Concentration 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks.
Choose a spell for which you have Spell Mastery. You have mastered that spell to the point that you can condense it's preparation time and prepare it even in the heat of battle. Though on a limited basis.
Benefit: Once per day, you may attempt to prepare a spell for casting in an available spell slot in a reduced amount of time, under any conditions. The level of the spell may not exceed three less than the maximum level of spells you can cast. This preparation requires time equal to the level of the spell plus two rounds, as well as total concentration, which disallows movement beyond a five foot step, and prohibits taking any other actions without losing the spell, and the opportunity to spontaneously prepare any other spells that day. This ability works exactly like casting a spell in regards to attacks of opportunity, concentration checks, etc.

So let me know what you think. This is a completely rough draft of the feat in mind. I like most of the numbers involved, but I'm somewhat concerned about the prerequisites and how they balance out.

Hope this was helpful...

 

[Coredump]

Hmmm....

It may be well balanced, but it is way too harsh for what I had in mind.

I will likely give him more leeway, with a warning that it might get cut back.

The one time he used it, it was more to improve the story than to get a benefit; so I may give him the benefit of the doubt....

 

[TheRelinquished]

Ah, well I always think exceptions can be made for good storyline. Like the time I initiated a surprise round and used a glove of storing to pop out my bow and ghost some necromancer chick who was second in command to the leader of the bad guys we were talking to.

I rolled a crit on the shot and did something just short of dropping her to zero. The DM says:

"Ya know what? She falls to the ground, grasping the arrow in her neck, coughing up blood profusely in her last moments...She's dead."-->(out of character)"That was just too badass to pass up. Good job."

I <3 storyline enhancements...