Star Wars Saga, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[Flynn]

I guess part of my problem now is having seen the $40 cover price. It took considerable time to get most of the books of the previous edition because I though they were overpriced. I don't remember the WEG version being that much more expensive than other RPGs.

You might consider ordering through Amazon or Walmart.com, then, as the price there is around $26.

Personally, I picked it up and I like it. I find the game mechanics around Force powers to be an outstanding integration of various D20 mechanics, and I like a great majority of the streamlining. I think my only problem really is that grenade-style attacks don't have an attack roll, but instead are treated in the same manner fireball is (i.e. an auto-hit on the area, and a Reflex check for half damage), and I'm smart enough to be able to add that back in. I really think Saga is a step forward in RPG design for WOTC, as it holds a good number of what I would consider to be "second generation" evolutions in the D20 System. Some of it is stuff I'd use for D&D, while some of it definitely is not. (It works for Star Wars, but not necessarily for D&D.)

Just a thought,
Flynn

 

[theredrobedwizard]

That much more expensive than other RPGs? Most core books are that much, with the exception of D&D.

Vampire? $35
True20? $35
L5R? $40
Arcana Evolved? $50
A Game of Thrones? $50
D20 Modern? $40
Call of Cthulhu? $40
Lord of the Rings? $40
Dragonlance? $40
Forgotten Realms? $40
Eberron? $40
Buffy the Vampire Slayer? $40
Qin? $40
Wheel of Time? $40
Exalted? $40
Iron Heroes? $35
Mutants and Masterminds? $40

I could go on, really; these are just a range of prices from my nearby shelf. Now, $40 is marginally expensive if you're comparing its cost to that of D&D's individual core books ($30), but not overly so.

As a previous poster has suggested, both Wal*Mart and Amazon have the book for about $14 cheaper than the advertised price.

(edit: Just checked my WEG books. The core book was $35 [1994], the Special Edition Trilogy Sourcebook was $35 [1997], Imperial Sourcebook $25 [1989]. Adjusted for inflation, most of these books would cost about $40 or more today.)

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The Good - Most everything in the book.
The Bad - I'm not a fan of the Destiny Points system, just seems extraneous.
The Ugly - Stupid map in the middle of the book.

-TRRW

 

[theredrobedwizard]

I think my only problem really is that grenade-style attacks don't have an attack roll, but instead are treated in the same manner fireball is (i.e. an auto-hit on the area, and a Reflex check for half damage).

Actually, this was one of the things I liked. No more having to roll to hit, then rolling to see where it landed if you missed, then looking up the chart because no one remembers where it is in the book, then rolling again, then rolling damage. Much quicker for the player to say "I throw a grenade. My attack total is 17", then have the GM compare that number to each of the enemies' Reflex Defense score.

-TRRW

 

[Gundark]

One bad so far - ALL diagonal movement costs double; they cut out the "1-2-1-2" thing, which makes for some REALLY odd square movement zones.

It's my first house rule, and I haven't even run the game yet.

oddly enough I'll be using this rule. For whatever reason my group struggles with the 1-2-1-2-1 rule like nothing else. The new diagonal movement rule makes it easy.


And DING post number 1000....that only took me 5 years.

 

[Rykion]

I really like the feel of the rules for the Saga Edition. It's the first D20 Star wars ruleset that has convinced me to run it over WEG's version. It does have some typos and omissions though.

I think my only problem really is that grenade-style attacks don't have an attack roll, but instead are treated in the same manner fireball is (i.e. an auto-hit on the area, and a Reflex check for half damage), and I'm smart enough to be able to add that back in.

My understanding is that part of the rule for autofire got cut out of the book. If the attack roll total is not at least 10, the attack completely misses dealing no damage. I'm planning on using this rule for all area effect attacks.

 

[Owen K.C. Stephens]

In my personal experience, people who have trouble with 1-2-1-2-1-2 are often very, very bothered by how it breaks their train of thought, and slows an encounter. People who aren't bothered by it always seem able to introduce it even if a rulebook doesn't include it.

Also, I have, literally, seen someone get up and walk away from an effort to teach him roleplaying because the 1-2-1-2 rule was the straw that broke the camel's back. Star Wars has a lot of potential as a gateway. I'd like that gateway to be as inviting as possible.

My thoughts only.

 

[Nebulous]

Also, I have, literally, seen someone get up and walk away from an effort to teach him roleplaying because the 1-2-1-2 rule was the straw that broke the camel's back. Star Wars has a lot of potential as a gateway. I'd like that gateway to be as inviting as possible.

Funny, i never would have considered that a roleplaying dealbreaker.

 

[Kesh]

I generally love everything, but a few things bug me:

1.) There is no way to expand your class skills without multiclassing.

It's really not necessary. All having a Trained skill does is grant a +5 to the roll. Every skill can be rolled on by every character:

1d20 + one-half your character level + key ability modifier + misc. modifiers

If you're Trained, you get a +5 bonus. If you take the Skill Training feat, you become trained in an additional class skill, and Skill Focus gives you an extra +5 to a Trained skill.

Now, if you're talking about adding skills that are not on your class skill list, then that's true. But, if that's it, just add a feat to your game to allow it. Say, "Cross-Training: Choose a skill not on your class skill list. You may now Train in that skill as if it were on your skill list."

2.) Very skimpy on the sample stuff. Give me 50 more pages with a few more ships, force powers, equipment, sample NPCs, etc.

Ships and maybe sample NPCs I can side with. Equipment, not so much, and there's plenty of Force powers given.

3.) The map in the middle of the book. Grrr

My only real complaint. I hate tear-out maps in my books.

 

[Technik4]

But then to add insult to injury, not only are you forced to level to regain these critical resources, but you hit a wall at level 20. Absolutely no discussion of level 20 play and its affect on force and destiny points, nor rules on advancing beyond 20 are offered. So once you spend all your Force and Destiny points a level 20 character is just permanently screwed barring GM houserules? This is a huge flaw in the game in my opinion.

Couldn't you just forget everything you know about Epic rules and add a 21st level? I mean, looking at the book, we see that 18th level requires 153,000 XP, 19th 171,000 (difference is 18,000), and 20th requires 190,000 (difference is 19,000). So, we say that 21st level requires 210,000 XP, 22nd, requires 231,000 XP, and so forth. There, your biggest gripe is fixed.

And saying that a 20th level character is 'just permanently screwed' is laughable. Youre 20th level in a galaxy filled with schlubs! You can use your l33t powers to pwn everyone!

Of course the fact that the two most powerful individuals in the galaxy (Yoda and the Emperor) are both level 20 should indicate that your PCs would have to be pretty important to level beyond that (and I'm glad there aren't pages and pages more of characters statted out - the neatest thing about that section is the little summary about the character).

The only thing that has really bothered me about the book are some of the Typos. Padme's stats include a talent called 'Wanted Alive', which doesn't seem too hard to understand what it does, but would be nice to have written down. The noble table has some numbers shifted improperly (but since the classes are all just talent, feat, talent, after 2nd or 3rd level, its pretty minor).

Good work on the book, its the first Star Wars book I've ever bought besides the original trilogy of novels.

 

[Henry]

Also, I have, literally, seen someone get up and walk away from an effort to teach him roleplaying because the 1-2-1-2 rule was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Wow! That's amazing. Then again, I did use to have the worst trouble with the Knight in chess when I was younger, so different strokes, and all that.

Star Wars has a lot of potential as a gateway. I'd like that gateway to be as inviting as possible.

My thoughts only.

Understood; seeing as how it doesn't make a huge difference in play (not like, say, whole mastercraft hullabaloo), it's not a big deal.