Star Wars SE Skills in D&D

[Aust Diamondew]

I think skill points are one of the easiest parts of D&D. Particuarly for a PC leveling up level by level.
Even when making a high level NPC I'll just pick out a handful of skills to max, a few to put at 1/2 max and then reduce those skills as needed to put other skills in the 2-5 rank range. And those last two parts are if I want to get complicated.
The only thing that annoys me is those damn synergy bonuses, I always have too look them up.

I do like the idea of condensing some skills though.

 

[Hawken]

One thing you could do is separate the trained skills into something like Basic and Advanced Training for skills.

Advanced Training:
You get the listed amount of skills to select for Advanced Training (2-6 + Int modifier; depending on your class). Skill checks for skills you have Advanced Training with are made as listed:

1/2 level + ability mod + 5 (trained) + 5 (if skill focus).

Basic Training:
You get Basic Training in a number of skills equal to 1/2 (round down) the number of skills you get Advanced Training in--If you get 6 total skills for Advanced Training, you get 3 more for Basic Training. Skill checks for skills with Basic Training are:

1/4 level + ability mod + 2 (basic training).

Although synergy bonuses are gone, I plan on using them but making them into a feat. Choose two skills that you are trained in (basic or advanced) and you get a +2 bonus to both skills. But I won't have the synergy and focus bonuses stack unless the character has focus in both skills. I would limit the synergy to skills with the same degree of training (both either advanced or basic).

For the Skill Training, I plan on adjusting it to these ideas by allowing you to either gain Advanced training with 1 skill, Basic training with 2 skills or improve two skills with Basic training into Advanced training.

In regards to multi-classing, I will grant 1 free Advanced training in a class skill for the new class or Basic training in 2 of the class skills of the new class.

With the extra feats (at 1st, 3rd, etc. and every even level), the character will have a lot more feats than a 3.5 character and can afford to spend a feat or two or three on training in more skills and still wind up with more feats than a 3.5 character now.

I was also thinking of reducing the bonus to skill focus to +4 and then allowing the option of taking Greater Skill Focus for a bonus of +7 to the skill so that low level characters, for the price of two feats, can have a level of expertise on par with a high level character with basic or no training.

I was also thinking of changing the check of someone untrained in a skill to 1/4 level and 1/2 the ability score modifier + d20, or maybe just 1/2 level + d20 and no ability score modifier, but I'm not sure right now how well that would work out.

I agree that the rogue (scoundrel) class would be hurt somewhat by the lack of additional skills as they level up. To correct that, I don't think it would unbalance them to grant training with a new skill at every 5th level (5th, 10th, 15th, 20th) or so.

Because some skills are so specific in scope (Craft, Knowledge, Perform and Profession), I would grant double the amount of proficiency if one of these skills are selected. So selecting Knowledge, for example, would grant Advanced training with 2 specific Knowledge skills (Religion and Planes; for example) or Basic training with 4 specific skills (Local, History, Geography and Nobility; for example).

 

[Asmor]

This reminds me a lot of a system I made a while ago. Sadly I've never given it a try, but I still think it sounds like a good idea on paper.

In a nutshell, the skills are condensed into a small list (3 "Character skills" (perform, craft, profession) and 9 "adventuring" skills (everything else)). Everyone gets two free character skills. Then people assign the rest of the skills into a list. They get the skills at the top of the list first, and keep going down until they run out of skill points. This way, if a character gets an intelligence boost or drain, his skills are affected commensurately just like con and hit points.

Multiclassing is handled by designating one class the primary class (your highest class, which can change); the character uses that class's skill list to determine if a skill is class or cross class. There's a formula for a character's bonus in class skills and cross class skills, based on level.

 

[CleverNickName]

I like the SWSE concept of condensing the skill list...rolling Listen, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot into a single skill called Perception, for example. I think that is a very clean and efficient way to get more mileage out of your skill points.

But I don't like how the SWSE system got rid of skill points altogether. Like Atomn said, high-level characters are better at untrained skills than a low-level expert would be. And like Someone and Spatz said, removing skill points makes multiclassing a nightmare and nerfs the "skillful" classes.

I would be open to a system that still uses skill points, but has a lot fewer skills. Off the top of my head, I can think of several skills that could be condensed:

Agility (Dex): Balance, Jump, Tumble
Deception (Cha): Bluff, Disguise, Forgery
Perception (Wis): Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spot
Persuasion (Cha): Diplomacy, Intimidate
Skullduggery (Dex): Disable Device, Open Lock, Sleight of Hand
Stealth (Dex): Hide, Move Silently
Magic Aptitude (Cha): Concentration, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

Of course, this would create all sorts of problems with character balance. Fewer skill points per level for each class, and making all skills "trained only" would be the tip of the iceberg...

EDIT: Wow, Asmor...that is exactly what I had in mind. Would you mind too terribly if I playtested it for you?

 

[Asmor]

EDIT: Wow, Asmor...that is exactly what I had in mind. Would you mind too terribly if I playtested it for you?

I'd mind in the sense that I'd feel terribly honored.

So... no, not in the slightest.

 

[CleverNickName]

So... no, not in the slightest.

I copied down some notes from the original thread, and I e-mailed it out to my players before our gaming session this evening.

Before the game, I asked everyone what they thought about it, and the general response was "meh" (except for the person who plays our rogue, and her reaction was "GAAH!"). It seems that I'm the only one at my table who is interested in tweaking the skill system, so it might be a while before I can test it out for you.

FWIW, I think it's a neat system. I'd still prefer to see something that still allows a character to earn and spend skill points, but I like how you've combined all of the related skills into a shorter list. That makes more sense to me than skill synergy does.

 

[Flynn]

Suggestion: Use skill points as you normally would, but make all skills cost as per cross-class skills. The ranks would stay in the same range, and you'd still get the diversity and choice that the players probably want.

Just a thought,
Flynn

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

Suggestion: Use skill points as you normally would, but make all skills cost as per cross-class skills. The ranks would stay in the same range, and you'd still get the diversity and choice that the players probably want.

Just a thought,
Flynn

Which also defeats the whole purpose of the simplified skill system. Also, maybe not everyone wants the "diversity and choice;" some players might instead prefer a skill system that's light on the number-crunching, and GM's might prefer a system that ensures that a great idea for part of an adventure doesn't crash'n'burn becuase none of the characters put any ranks into the skills required.

Honestly, how many people put more than a few ranks into skills like Climb, Ride, or Swim unless it's a key part of their character, especially if those skills are all cross-class?

 

[Asmor]

I copied down some notes from the original thread, and I e-mailed it out to my players before our gaming session this evening.

Before the game, I asked everyone what they thought about it, and the general response was "meh" (except for the person who plays our rogue, and her reaction was "GAAH!"). It seems that I'm the only one at my table who is interested in tweaking the skill system, so it might be a while before I can test it out for you.

FWIW, I think it's a neat system. I'd still prefer to see something that still allows a character to earn and spend skill points, but I like how you've combined all of the related skills into a shorter list. That makes more sense to me than skill synergy does.

Yeah, players are like that... Fricking players... Always have to be dragged kickin' and screamin' to the future. I tell ya, D&D would be a much better game if there were no players.

Hmm... *starts scribbling down idea for "Solitaire RPG"*

 

[Baby Samurai]

Honestly, how many people put more than a few ranks into skills like Climb, Ride, or Swim unless it's a key part of their character, especially if those skills are all cross-class?

Exactly, which brings up the question of why on earth didn't they fold Climb + Jump + Swim into one skill – Athletics with Saga Edition?

I've read some of their reasoning on the WotC boards and it still sounds like a load of bollocks, I mean, if Sense Motive has been folded with Listen, Spot and Search into Perception, what the hell?