D&D 5E Starting a higher level campaign soon as a player: what to watch out for? What should my DM watch out for?

[Blue]

Our campaigns get to this level, but not usually too much further. So I'll talk more about the start of it from experience, and further up from theory.

Party synergy is more important than any character build. And a common issue I see when people build high level characters for one shots instead of characters that started at low levels and grew together is that they don't really have it. Coming in at 12th so many of your character choices have already been made. I would ask the DM to allow character tweaking for the first couple of sessions as you learn the other characters.

At these levels the party has a lot more in it's bag of tricks. Casting/ritual use of divination spells daily for instance. It should change how play flows to some degree.

For the DM, characters will have lots of high level spells. If they don't do enough encounters per day to run the casters down to a good amount of cantrip/low level offensive spell usage (vs. utility/defensive), then the long-rest recovery classes like pure casters will dominate the other classes.

At higher levels, common use of things like Simulacrum to double up casting, "microwaving" opponents (holding them in place and kill just standing there, such as forcecage plus heat metal or sickening radiance. And don't forget frequent conjured allies for meat shields and damage.

Multiclassing has more payoff - delaying a third ASI/feat has a lot less impact than delaying a first, and cherry picking to 2nd or 3rd level doesn't mean you don't have the main parts and level 5 power bump from other class(es). Cherry picking things that scale well, such as the Peace domain that scales with proficiency, or a class just to get Shield/Absorb Elements/Silvery Barbs.

 

[Blue]

Uncommons at level 12?

Is right on the money.

First, you need to include "The DM gave us some magic items that were important to the campaign", so this is 10 uncommon items (assuming a 5 PC party) in addition to those. And those are special important items, I would assume that some could/would be higher than uncommon rarity.

If you look at the official magic item award recommendation, a 10th level party should have 7 uncommons plus a single rare for the entire party. 11th through 16th, and the start of 12th is not particularly far into that, should pick up another uncommon, 2 more each rare and v. rare, and by the end of that range a legendary. For the whole party.

Expecting more than this is a higher magic campaign then the rules are calibrated for.

 

[Stalker0]

Compared to 3.5 (which playing at 12th level is fully of crazy combos and things) I think your DM will find DMing 5e pretty easy. That's not to say there's aren't some eye rolling things your players can do, but compared to 3.5 12th level its much tamer.

I think the biggest difference is.... bosses "suck" in 5e. By that I mean the game is designed intentionally around quantity rather than quality. 5e does not arm bosses with the same level of tools as they have in 3.5. In 3.5 you have spells that can floor a room, or make a character nigh invincible. Those equivalencies don't exist in the same way.

So for 5e boss fights, minions are essential. Your real bosses should NEVER be alone. Further, don't show the boss until you are ready for them to throw down with the players. 5e bosses can be squishy, and many a dm has mistakenly put their 5e bosses too close to the fire, used to the protections a high level boss in 3.5 or 4e can have, and then suddenly watch them get got in a round or two.

Anytime your increasing challenge in a fight, the better way to do it in 5e is to add monsters, rather than scaling up existing ones. That's what 5e's math is more designed around.


The other aspect of the challenge side is....a player going to 0 is not in as big a risk of death as you might be used to in 3e. In 3.5, the difference between 0 and -10 at 12th level is practically non-existent, so you get a player down towards 0 and a DM might worry they are about to kill the player. In 5e 12th level that rarely happens, it takes a LOT of damage on a single spell or attack to actually outright kill a player at this level, even if they are already at 0. What is much more likely to finish the job is they get hit with several weaker attacks once they are at 0 (as every successful hit while your at 0 triggers a death saving throw failure, and every crit gives 2 failures, and 3 failures = death). As a DM one thing you want to decide in your game is....the level of "targetting" you want to do. Are your monsters going to drop players to 0 and then move to the next target, or are they going to get hitting the unconscious player until they are truly dead? Tht is a big thing you want to decide as a group, as it is probably the number 1 thing that will swing the deadliness level of your game. If the DM never keeps hitting a player when they are down, the chance of your dying at 12th level is pretty slim, if they always target, then you can start taking players out pretty quickly.

 

[SteveC]

We made it to 99% done for the Dragon Heist game, so the new game is coming closer. I did talk to the players about characters and here's what we have:

• Bladsinger Wizard 12, goblin (me)
• Cleric of Wee Jas 12, human (previous character from 3.5)
• Hexblade 1, Paladin (Warding) 6, Bard (5), half elf
• Warlock 12, human, has the Smoking Eye template
• Barbarian/Rogue, human
• Rogue

I don't know all the details on the last two characters but the Barb/Rogue is a very experienced player and the Rogue is new. He is currently playing a Champion Fighter in our Dragon Heist game. Maybe that will help you give suggestions.

I don't think the DM's magic item ideas are unreasonable. I do think that the classification of items in 5E is a bit wonky.

 

[MarkB]

First thing:

Make sure everyone is VERY familiar with their characters.

Very much this, but not only your own characters. A lot of the things you build up during a naturally-levelling campaign are the little (and large) synergies you can build between different characters, the tactics that let you work together for the best effect.

I'd suggest having at least one practice session featuring some varied combat challenges so that you can get a good idea of what you and the other characters can do.

 

[Stalker0]

I'd suggest having at least one practice session featuring some varied combat challenges so that you can get a good idea of what you and the other characters can do.

This is a very very smart idea with such a transition. And honestly can add some excitement to a "session 0", as sometimes session 0s feel like all your doing it gathering to talk about rules and conventions.

But literally having an arena style were playing just drop in, a monster pops up, and they fight, so they all can get a feel for the new rules....that's engagement and is educational.

 

[SteveC]

Talking with the DM, he's planning on a couple of encounters to tune up our combat ability. If I remember the chapter we are going into, there are a couple of fights with the thieves guild in it normally, so hopefully that will help us out. We're also going to be allowed to re-spec characters or even rebuild them. I have made suggestions for uncommon magic items that don't require attunement to the player who typically has characters die all the time. Of course those are ones that I'd like.

For me, the big thing is going to be keeping track of reactions. I have Silvery Barbs as well as Counterspell, Absorb Elements, and Shield, so I have a lot to keep track of. When to use that reaction is going to be my biggest concern. Concentration is the big issue for the player with the cleric, since he is used to buffing as much as he likes.

It will also be a little scary running without teleport until I get to 13th level. No "and we're out of here!" until then.

 

[Mort]

Talking with the DM, he's planning on a couple of encounters to tune up our combat ability. If I remember the chapter we are going into, there are a couple of fights with the thieves guild in it normally, so hopefully that will help us out. We're also going to be allowed to re-spec characters or even rebuild them. I have made suggestions for uncommon magic items that don't require attunement to the player who typically has characters die all the time. Of course those are ones that I'd like.

For me, the big thing is going to be keeping track of reactions. I have Silvery Barbs as well as Counterspell, Absorb Elements, and Shield, so I have a lot to keep track of. When to use that reaction is going to be my biggest concern. Concentration is the big issue for the player with the cleric, since he is used to buffing as much as he likes.

It will also be a little scary running without teleport until I get to 13th level. No "and we're out of here!" until then.

I've played a goblin bladesinger through level 11 so far and yeah, you have a bit of reaction overload!

Another big question (assuming you take this route) what do you use your contingency for?

I've used mine, so far, with greater invisibility, which is just amazing for a bladesinger. I wouldn't have to waste an action in combat for it (not to mention saving a 4th level spell). It's worked well, but there have been very few opponents who could see invisible. Your DM may not be so forgiving!

 

[SteveC]

Another big question (assuming you take this route) what do you use your contingency for?

Of course I have contingency! Thanks for reminding me to discuss it, actually. I was initially planning on using it for Resilient Sphere. That was something my previous character did where it would activate once I hit 33% HP. The problem is that RS is a concentration spell, so I would drop another spell I would be concentrating on. I had thought to use Dimension Door instead as a sort of "get out of dodge" spell. I do like the improved invisibility idea though and must think on it.

 

[Mort]

Of course I have contingency! Thanks for reminding me to discuss it, actually. I was initially planning on using it for Resilient Sphere. That was something my previous character did where it would activate once I hit 33% HP. The problem is that RS is a concentration spell, so I would drop another spell I would be concentrating on. I had thought to use Dimension Door instead as a sort of "get out of dodge" spell. I do like the improved invisibility idea though and must think on it.

Between contingency dimension door and contingency resilient sphere, I tend to prefer dimension door. Sure resilient sphere is nice, but then what? With dimension door you have some nice tactical options as well as the obvious retreat option.

But the reason I've liked improved invisibility:

1. You can't be counterspelled unless they can see you;

2. You have advantage on attacks, baddies have disadvantage. This was particularly nasty when I got off steel wind strike (got a bit lucky and, thanks to advantage, critted 2 targets. Rolling 12d10 is SATISFYING and really gets the attention of the table). I took the DM referring to my character as the whirling death Muppet as a compliment.

3. Unless a good portion of the baddies can see you, you have the run off the battlefield. Huge tactical advantage!