Neonchameleon
Legend
I'm looking for feedback on both this and my other guide from people with more PF experience than I have. I've some 3.X and a lot of 4e, but limited PF experience.
Summoning Information - a guide to an alternate Eidolon
The orthodox way of playing the Summoner class in Pathfinder is to create your Eidolon as a melee beat stick that rivals the Fighter in power. And then back it up with your own magic. I prefer to play my wizards as tricksters, and problem solvers, more inclined to working round problems than to tackling them head on (although do not meddle in the affairs of wizards for they have more than one way of making you croak).
Because I prefer to have my wizards subtle rather than effective beatsticks, and because I dislike wasting strong class features like Summon Monster, I prefer to use the Eidolon as a Rogue rather than a fighter.
Summoner as Rogue
A rogue is a skills centric class with 8+Int modifier skill points. A Summoner gets 2+Int and an Eidolon doesn’t even get an allocation each level. How do you make up the gap?
Covering the Rogue’s Skills
First, the Eidolon gets four skill points most levels. The physical side of being a rogue can be handled by three skills with three more being useful. Stealth. Perception. Disable Device. Also helped by Bluff, Disguise, and Sense Motive. At four skill points per hit dice you can afford to keep the first three of those at maximum ranks And as an Eidolon you simply don’t need the other useful rogue skills for scouting and breaking and entering such as Climb and Swim. Why would you? Those are each one point evolutions and from fifth level you can fly.
But what of the rest of the rogue’s skills? The social skills and Use Magic Device?
Those are the ones not likely to get you killed immediately, so those are where you, the Summoner, can excel. You’re a Charisma-based class and have both UMD and Speak Language on your class list. Sense Motive, Bluff, and Diplomacy alas, are not. Which means intelligence is a very important stat - you have five skills you want to cover in person and only two skill points to do it (although bluff can easily be dropped if the Eidolon is trying). Int 14 as a human can cover all five. And as a Summoner, once you add your Eidolon’s skills into the equation you both have about as many skill points as a Bard, Ranger, or Inquisitor, and can ignore the need for many skills.
Surpassing the Rogue’s Skills
As a Summoner you don’t get Trapfinding - a fairly major loss if you’re pretending to be a Rogue. So to match the Rogue as a Rogue you need to be able to go above and beyond. You need an advantage over the Rogue. Fortunately you have lots - I’m listing five below.
If a rogue dies trying something risky, that’s it. Kaput. New character. If the Eidolon dies, it’s … annoying. But not a catastrophe - you can just summon it back a day later. This means the Eidolon can scout places the Rogue wouldn’t dare - or plant things.
The Eidolon can be Unsummoned
If you Dismiss the Eidolon, it gets sent back to its own plane with no serious harm done - and that’s simply a standard action with no rule saying the Eidolon has to be present. Use Message to keep in contact with it when it’s scouting. And if the Eidolon is trying to do something or grab something, have it use the Message to tell you it needs extraction, Matrix-style. At which point you dismiss it. And if it grabbed something you get it when you resummon the Eidolon. Otherwise it doesn’t have to worry about getting out, unlike a rogue. (It can also tell you when the alarm’s triggered - and at that point if they don’t catch the Eidolon in the next six seconds you dismiss it then resummon it next to you). So as well as being expendable the Eidolon is a lot safer than the rogue. (As a minor note it’s also tougher than the Rogue, having the hit point pool of both itself and you to survive the round before you unsummon it).
The Eidolon’s senses are superior to any rogue.
The Eidolon starts with Dark Vision. Only the best rogues have either Dark Vision or Low Light vision (an extra point if you think you want it). One point for Scent? (And another to make tracking by scent near-trivial). Two for Tremorsense (for when you’re not flying)? Three for Blindsense? Four for Blindsight? The Rogue only wishes (s)he had that level of perception.
The Eidolon has incredible mobility
Climb costs one point. Swim one (and another for gills). Fly two (or preferably four) - and can be made absurdly fast.. The rogue is stuck with rolling skills. He’s simply out of his league unless the spellcasters have been really nice. Or makes do with magic items.
The Eidolon has the raw numbers
A +8 to one skill costs one evolution point. Even by twentieth level (when the rogue has five more hit dice than the Eidolon) the rogue is still three points behind the Eidolon on skill points at any skill the Eidolon considers important enough to do this to (remember that the Eidolon may have had the +8 ever since first level). And even with the lowest possible dexterity (a Biped Eidolon starts with only 12), an Eidolon gain +2 to str and dex every five levels in addition to normal advance points. Plus they can gain more stats from evolution points. So their numbers start ahead of the rogue anywhere they want to and stay ahead from there.
So there are five solid reasons that the Eidolon beats the Rogue at all the stealth aspects of the Rogue except finding specialist traps. At this point what’s left for the Rogue? Sneak attack? Even the tricks don’t help much - three of them give you advantages when making climb checks - something the Eidolon doesn’t need to do at all. But we’ve sacrificed almost all the Eidolon’s combat potential to make him out-rogue the rogue. What are we to do?
Your combat skills - Summoning Monsters
The Summoner gets to cast Summon Monster X as a spell like ability up to 3 + Charisma modifier times/day as long as they don’t have an Eidolon summoned - this would be a difficult choice if your Eidolon had any interest in combat at all. Or to put things another way, six times per day a summoner gets to cast a spell that is as strong as a wizard could cast. And because they can focus on this, the mini-feat chain of Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Superior Summoning can be bought by 5th level (3rd for a human). I’ve written a separate guide to summoning monsters.
Remember that because you summon monsters as a standard not a full round action they get to act on the turn you summon them.
If the Eidolon needs to fight
Then it hasn’t been set up as a serious fight. And an Eidolon can keep on the natural attack cap up to level 14 with just a second pair of claws (one hands, one feet), and a bite - these attacks aren’t that impressive, however. But there is one Eidolon build that doesn’t cost many evolution points to set up and can chew through chaff very easily. That’s the ‘Kali’ build with half a dozen arms (two evolution points per pair), and the feats Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword (or any other light weapon), Multiweapon Fighting, and Double Slice. Even so this is probably a bad call due to being the only build not to want large size.
Effective Major Options
Races
Human and Half-Elf are the two strong ones. Human gives more skill points to the Eidolon - but Half Elf has the advantage, giving the Eidolon an extra evolution point every four levels (which gives +8 to a skill if that’s the desired option). Halflings are slightly weaker than humans - not providing the human skill points.
Specialist Builds
First Worlder
The First Worlder is normally a terrible option. It lowers the Eidolon’s BAB and hit points. But you don’t care too much about either, and it adds a few interesting monster options. No reason you shouldn’t (and you get to summon unicorns) and it’s fluffy and fun. Note that you don’t get Disable Device on your Eidolon Skill List so you aren’t as far ahead of the rogue as normal. And this build suffers at low level by not being able to summon Riding Dogs, and at high level by not being able to summon demons or angels - which is where your best spells from summoned creatures come from.
Broodmaster
There’s one major reason to play a Broodmaster. It allows you to make your Eidolon small for +4 to stealth and to fit through smaller gaps. And then keep the other one near you to use as a weak bodyguard (as they dismiss together there’s no reason you shouldn’t.
Evolutionist
No point to this and Transposition is useful for the Eidolon to scout, then take you there.
Master Summoner
Your Eidolon doesn’t get to fly until level 10. I wouldn’t recommend this as it significantly weakens you at your primary role.
Synthesist
The Eidolon has no skills or feats of its own. Possibly for would-be beatsticks, but not for you.
Multiclassing
It’s a trap. Just don’t do it as your Eidolon won’t advance.
Build Basics
Your form
Biped
Only form to come with arms - and the best shape for fitting in.
Serpentine
Highest dexterity. Needs arms or tentacles but when it can fly, can look very cool.
Aquatic
Comes with the most free evolution points. Are you planning to go underwater? If not, Gills and Swim (2) aren’t much use.
Quadruped
No one would believe a horse was really a rogue. Still, a bad choice. The two advantages to a quadruped are mount and pounce, and you don’t need either.
So biped is best here, with a serpentine being useful at higher levels.
Suggested Eidolon Mutations and Skills
1st Level
Mutations: Climb (1), Scent (1), Skilled (Stealth)
Skills: Stealth (1) (+13), Perception (1) (+4), Disable Device (1) (+6), Survival (1) (+4)
Comments: You already have the stealth to beat the rogue and the maneuverability to beat the rogue - and superior senses but aren’t anything like a complete package yet.
5th Level
Mutations: Wingless Flight (4), Climb (1), Scent (1), Skilled (Stealth), Skilled (Perception)
Skills: Stealth (4) (+18), Perception (4) (+15), Disable Device (4) (+10), Survival (1) (+4), Disguise (1) (+4), Sense Motive (1) (+4), Fly (1) (+7)
Comments: The build is more or less together - this might be early to make the switch to wingless flight depending how useful you found either Disable Device or Tremorsense. Your effective fly skill is at +15, allowing you to hover without trouble - a good thing for a rogue (and why I didn’t go for winged flight). A hat of disguise is needed to make the disguise score really work but it was anyway.
10th Level
Mutations: Aspect (-2) Blindsense (3) (or see in darkness), Skilled (Disable Device), Wingless Flight (4), Climb (1), Scent (1), Skilled (Stealth), Skilled (Perception)
Skills: Stealth (8) (+25), Perception 8 (+19), Disable Device 8 (+25), Fly (1) (+10), Survival (1) (+4), Disguise (1) (+4), Sense Motive (1) (+4), Bluff (1) (+4), Use Magic Device (1) (+4), Diplomacy (1) (+4)
Comments: Without having touched your fly skill, you now effectively fly at +18 meaning you make the most complex maneuvers on a natural 2. Your three core rogue skills are several points above a competent level 10 rogue’s (although they may match the numbers with magic items).
15th Level
Mutations: Blindsight (4), Aspect (-2) Blindsense (3) (or see in darkness), Skilled (Disable Device), Wingless Flight (4), Climb (1), Scent (1), Skilled (Stealth), Skilled (Perception), 2 points to taste
Skills: Stealth (12) (+31), Perception 12 (+23), Disable Device 12 (+31), Fly (1) (+12), Survival (1) (+4), Disguise (1) (+4), Sense Motive (1) (+4), Bluff (1) (+4), Use Magic Device (1) (+4), Diplomacy (1) (+4), 3 points in secondary skills to taste
Comments: You’re running out of things to do here and the rogue is catching up in raw numbers. at least catching up with being able to challenge the Eidolon in raw numbers at what is supposed to be his area of expertise. His stealth might even be better by now with advanced rogue tricks. If he hasn’t died.
Summoning Information - a guide to an alternate Eidolon
The orthodox way of playing the Summoner class in Pathfinder is to create your Eidolon as a melee beat stick that rivals the Fighter in power. And then back it up with your own magic. I prefer to play my wizards as tricksters, and problem solvers, more inclined to working round problems than to tackling them head on (although do not meddle in the affairs of wizards for they have more than one way of making you croak).
Because I prefer to have my wizards subtle rather than effective beatsticks, and because I dislike wasting strong class features like Summon Monster, I prefer to use the Eidolon as a Rogue rather than a fighter.
Summoner as Rogue
A rogue is a skills centric class with 8+Int modifier skill points. A Summoner gets 2+Int and an Eidolon doesn’t even get an allocation each level. How do you make up the gap?
Covering the Rogue’s Skills
First, the Eidolon gets four skill points most levels. The physical side of being a rogue can be handled by three skills with three more being useful. Stealth. Perception. Disable Device. Also helped by Bluff, Disguise, and Sense Motive. At four skill points per hit dice you can afford to keep the first three of those at maximum ranks And as an Eidolon you simply don’t need the other useful rogue skills for scouting and breaking and entering such as Climb and Swim. Why would you? Those are each one point evolutions and from fifth level you can fly.
But what of the rest of the rogue’s skills? The social skills and Use Magic Device?
Those are the ones not likely to get you killed immediately, so those are where you, the Summoner, can excel. You’re a Charisma-based class and have both UMD and Speak Language on your class list. Sense Motive, Bluff, and Diplomacy alas, are not. Which means intelligence is a very important stat - you have five skills you want to cover in person and only two skill points to do it (although bluff can easily be dropped if the Eidolon is trying). Int 14 as a human can cover all five. And as a Summoner, once you add your Eidolon’s skills into the equation you both have about as many skill points as a Bard, Ranger, or Inquisitor, and can ignore the need for many skills.
Surpassing the Rogue’s Skills
As a Summoner you don’t get Trapfinding - a fairly major loss if you’re pretending to be a Rogue. So to match the Rogue as a Rogue you need to be able to go above and beyond. You need an advantage over the Rogue. Fortunately you have lots - I’m listing five below.
- The Eidolon is Expendible
- The Eidolon can be Unsummoned
- The Eidolon has superior senses
- The Eidolon is more mobile
- The Eidolon is simply more skilled
If a rogue dies trying something risky, that’s it. Kaput. New character. If the Eidolon dies, it’s … annoying. But not a catastrophe - you can just summon it back a day later. This means the Eidolon can scout places the Rogue wouldn’t dare - or plant things.
The Eidolon can be Unsummoned
If you Dismiss the Eidolon, it gets sent back to its own plane with no serious harm done - and that’s simply a standard action with no rule saying the Eidolon has to be present. Use Message to keep in contact with it when it’s scouting. And if the Eidolon is trying to do something or grab something, have it use the Message to tell you it needs extraction, Matrix-style. At which point you dismiss it. And if it grabbed something you get it when you resummon the Eidolon. Otherwise it doesn’t have to worry about getting out, unlike a rogue. (It can also tell you when the alarm’s triggered - and at that point if they don’t catch the Eidolon in the next six seconds you dismiss it then resummon it next to you). So as well as being expendable the Eidolon is a lot safer than the rogue. (As a minor note it’s also tougher than the Rogue, having the hit point pool of both itself and you to survive the round before you unsummon it).
The Eidolon’s senses are superior to any rogue.
The Eidolon starts with Dark Vision. Only the best rogues have either Dark Vision or Low Light vision (an extra point if you think you want it). One point for Scent? (And another to make tracking by scent near-trivial). Two for Tremorsense (for when you’re not flying)? Three for Blindsense? Four for Blindsight? The Rogue only wishes (s)he had that level of perception.
The Eidolon has incredible mobility
Climb costs one point. Swim one (and another for gills). Fly two (or preferably four) - and can be made absurdly fast.. The rogue is stuck with rolling skills. He’s simply out of his league unless the spellcasters have been really nice. Or makes do with magic items.
The Eidolon has the raw numbers
A +8 to one skill costs one evolution point. Even by twentieth level (when the rogue has five more hit dice than the Eidolon) the rogue is still three points behind the Eidolon on skill points at any skill the Eidolon considers important enough to do this to (remember that the Eidolon may have had the +8 ever since first level). And even with the lowest possible dexterity (a Biped Eidolon starts with only 12), an Eidolon gain +2 to str and dex every five levels in addition to normal advance points. Plus they can gain more stats from evolution points. So their numbers start ahead of the rogue anywhere they want to and stay ahead from there.
So there are five solid reasons that the Eidolon beats the Rogue at all the stealth aspects of the Rogue except finding specialist traps. At this point what’s left for the Rogue? Sneak attack? Even the tricks don’t help much - three of them give you advantages when making climb checks - something the Eidolon doesn’t need to do at all. But we’ve sacrificed almost all the Eidolon’s combat potential to make him out-rogue the rogue. What are we to do?
Your combat skills - Summoning Monsters
The Summoner gets to cast Summon Monster X as a spell like ability up to 3 + Charisma modifier times/day as long as they don’t have an Eidolon summoned - this would be a difficult choice if your Eidolon had any interest in combat at all. Or to put things another way, six times per day a summoner gets to cast a spell that is as strong as a wizard could cast. And because they can focus on this, the mini-feat chain of Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Superior Summoning can be bought by 5th level (3rd for a human). I’ve written a separate guide to summoning monsters.
Remember that because you summon monsters as a standard not a full round action they get to act on the turn you summon them.
If the Eidolon needs to fight
Then it hasn’t been set up as a serious fight. And an Eidolon can keep on the natural attack cap up to level 14 with just a second pair of claws (one hands, one feet), and a bite - these attacks aren’t that impressive, however. But there is one Eidolon build that doesn’t cost many evolution points to set up and can chew through chaff very easily. That’s the ‘Kali’ build with half a dozen arms (two evolution points per pair), and the feats Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword (or any other light weapon), Multiweapon Fighting, and Double Slice. Even so this is probably a bad call due to being the only build not to want large size.
Effective Major Options
Races
Human and Half-Elf are the two strong ones. Human gives more skill points to the Eidolon - but Half Elf has the advantage, giving the Eidolon an extra evolution point every four levels (which gives +8 to a skill if that’s the desired option). Halflings are slightly weaker than humans - not providing the human skill points.
Specialist Builds
First Worlder
The First Worlder is normally a terrible option. It lowers the Eidolon’s BAB and hit points. But you don’t care too much about either, and it adds a few interesting monster options. No reason you shouldn’t (and you get to summon unicorns) and it’s fluffy and fun. Note that you don’t get Disable Device on your Eidolon Skill List so you aren’t as far ahead of the rogue as normal. And this build suffers at low level by not being able to summon Riding Dogs, and at high level by not being able to summon demons or angels - which is where your best spells from summoned creatures come from.
Broodmaster
There’s one major reason to play a Broodmaster. It allows you to make your Eidolon small for +4 to stealth and to fit through smaller gaps. And then keep the other one near you to use as a weak bodyguard (as they dismiss together there’s no reason you shouldn’t.
Evolutionist
No point to this and Transposition is useful for the Eidolon to scout, then take you there.
Master Summoner
Your Eidolon doesn’t get to fly until level 10. I wouldn’t recommend this as it significantly weakens you at your primary role.
Synthesist
The Eidolon has no skills or feats of its own. Possibly for would-be beatsticks, but not for you.
Multiclassing
It’s a trap. Just don’t do it as your Eidolon won’t advance.
Build Basics
Your form
Biped
Only form to come with arms - and the best shape for fitting in.
Serpentine
Highest dexterity. Needs arms or tentacles but when it can fly, can look very cool.
Aquatic
Comes with the most free evolution points. Are you planning to go underwater? If not, Gills and Swim (2) aren’t much use.
Quadruped
No one would believe a horse was really a rogue. Still, a bad choice. The two advantages to a quadruped are mount and pounce, and you don’t need either.
So biped is best here, with a serpentine being useful at higher levels.
Suggested Eidolon Mutations and Skills
1st Level
Mutations: Climb (1), Scent (1), Skilled (Stealth)
Skills: Stealth (1) (+13), Perception (1) (+4), Disable Device (1) (+6), Survival (1) (+4)
Comments: You already have the stealth to beat the rogue and the maneuverability to beat the rogue - and superior senses but aren’t anything like a complete package yet.
5th Level
Mutations: Wingless Flight (4), Climb (1), Scent (1), Skilled (Stealth), Skilled (Perception)
Skills: Stealth (4) (+18), Perception (4) (+15), Disable Device (4) (+10), Survival (1) (+4), Disguise (1) (+4), Sense Motive (1) (+4), Fly (1) (+7)
Comments: The build is more or less together - this might be early to make the switch to wingless flight depending how useful you found either Disable Device or Tremorsense. Your effective fly skill is at +15, allowing you to hover without trouble - a good thing for a rogue (and why I didn’t go for winged flight). A hat of disguise is needed to make the disguise score really work but it was anyway.
10th Level
Mutations: Aspect (-2) Blindsense (3) (or see in darkness), Skilled (Disable Device), Wingless Flight (4), Climb (1), Scent (1), Skilled (Stealth), Skilled (Perception)
Skills: Stealth (8) (+25), Perception 8 (+19), Disable Device 8 (+25), Fly (1) (+10), Survival (1) (+4), Disguise (1) (+4), Sense Motive (1) (+4), Bluff (1) (+4), Use Magic Device (1) (+4), Diplomacy (1) (+4)
Comments: Without having touched your fly skill, you now effectively fly at +18 meaning you make the most complex maneuvers on a natural 2. Your three core rogue skills are several points above a competent level 10 rogue’s (although they may match the numbers with magic items).
15th Level
Mutations: Blindsight (4), Aspect (-2) Blindsense (3) (or see in darkness), Skilled (Disable Device), Wingless Flight (4), Climb (1), Scent (1), Skilled (Stealth), Skilled (Perception), 2 points to taste
Skills: Stealth (12) (+31), Perception 12 (+23), Disable Device 12 (+31), Fly (1) (+12), Survival (1) (+4), Disguise (1) (+4), Sense Motive (1) (+4), Bluff (1) (+4), Use Magic Device (1) (+4), Diplomacy (1) (+4), 3 points in secondary skills to taste
Comments: You’re running out of things to do here and the rogue is catching up in raw numbers. at least catching up with being able to challenge the Eidolon in raw numbers at what is supposed to be his area of expertise. His stealth might even be better by now with advanced rogue tricks. If he hasn’t died.
