D&D (2024) Take A Closer Look At The 2024 Dungeon Master’s Guide

Wizards of the Coast has just shared a video delving into the upcoming One D&D Dungeon Master’s Guide, due for release in 2024.

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Scroll down to post #4, below, for a more detailed text summary!

• Chapter 1 -- basic concepts
• Chapter 2 -- Advice, common issues
• Chapter 3 -- Rules cyclopedia
• Chapter 4 -- Adventure building
• Chapter 5 -- Campaign building
• Chapter 6 -- Cosmology
• Chapter 7 -- Magic items
• Chapter 8 -- 'A surprise'
• Appendices -- maps, lore glossary

 

[tetrasodium]

not sure how you concluded that I do given what I wrote. Maybe that is the communication issue you seem to have with your players

Well you seem to dismiss a post that literally starts with the words "fairly common" with a partial quote & jump to dismissing it because there are "several million players". Perhaps your trouble is in the selective fisking?

 

[mamba]

Well you seem to dismiss a post that literally starts with the words "fairly common" with a partial quote & jump to dismissing it because there are "several million players". Perhaps your trouble is in the selective fisking?

nah, I read the whole thing, I just do not like endless quotes.

Apart from you no one here seems to have the problem. If it were fairly common, I'd expect a different result.

 

[tetrasodium]

nah, I read the whole thing, I just do not like endless quotes.

Apart from you no one here seems to have the problem. If it were fairly common, I'd expect a different result.

I can't help but notice that you've never actually made any effort to defend the to defend the way 5e empowers problem elements but have been very enthusiastic in dismissing criticism of it. Is there nothing worgty of defense?

 

[mamba]

I can't help but notice that you've never actually made any effort to defend the to defend the way 5e empowers problem elements but have been very enthusiastic in dismissing criticism of it. Is there nothing worgty of defense?

I disagree with the notion that it empowers problem elements, I have nothing to defend here

Could some wording be improved, sure, but I do not see the existing wording resulting in any of what you are so concerned about (or that it actually exists in sufficient quantity to matter, let alone be solved by changes to the text)

 

[Scott Christian]

nah, I read the whole thing, I just do not like endless quotes.

Apart from you no one here seems to have the problem. If it were fairly common, I'd expect a different result.

To be fair to @tetrasodium , using what people post on here is not the best gauge for what happens at the "common table." The people on here debating are pretty well seeped in D&D. Now, that said, I am not saying I agree with tetrasodium, but I do think this forum is not a good litmus test for troubleshooting difficulties at a table (or inside one of the core rulebooks for that matter).

 

[mamba]

To be fair to @tetrasodium , using what people post on here is not the best gauge for what happens at the "common table." The people on here debating are pretty well seeped in D&D. Now, that said, I am not saying I agree with tetrasodium, but I do think this forum is not a good litmus test for troubleshooting difficulties at a table (or inside one of the core rulebooks for that matter).

the people here also play with new players, so if no one encounters this, I take this over the claim of a single person.

Does it reflect all tables no, but it is a larger sample than one person, so taking that one person over the group is counter-intuitive

I assume his experience is formed by the Adventure League games he runs. Those are a bunch of random people playing together once. I can see the behavior being worse because of that. I do not see that being fixed by a change to the text however.

 

[Scott Christian]

the people here also play with new players, so if no one encounters this, I take this over the claim of a single person.

Does it reflect all tables no, but it is a larger sample than one person, so taking that one person over the group is counter-intuitive

I assume his experience is formed by the Adventure League games he runs. Those are a bunch of random people playing together once. I can see the behavior being worse because of that. I do not see that being fixed by a change to the text however.

I agree with you, and I do think tetrasodium's problem arises from running AL. I have been a part of AL at several different stores, and to be truthful, I found the process has a tendency to attract people that can't find a regular table. It also seems to attract a lot of first timers, kids, and older rules lawyers. Of course, that is just my experience, much like it's just tetrasodium's experience. Neither is set in stone, but a problem is a problem, and a solution should at least be considered before dismissal.

(And, again, in fairness, that was my experience in AL at three different places with 5e. My experience with 4e's Wednesday night play was fantastic. I was able to meet several great players (8 of them!). So, that time it worked out well.)

 

[Chaosmancer]

I can't help but notice that you've never actually made any effort to defend the to defend the way 5e empowers problem elements but have been very enthusiastic in dismissing criticism of it. Is there nothing worgty of defense?

The thing is you are taking things to extremes. For example, in the most recent ad video from DnD by JoCat, he sings about how part of the way to get your players excited is to

"Make some characters that uniquely
Fit their fantasy or dumb memes
Or something completely left field but GROOVY!
Tell them it's their chance to star in their own series
Where they can do ANYTHING!
Save the world or be the villain
Use that imagination you can even smooch a King"

Now, from your perspective this is the worst possible thing! Not only is the dungeon master making the characters, but they are being told to bow to the whims of tyrant players who will run roughshod over them and destroy everything they have worked for!!!!

But... if you WATCH the video, that isn't the vibe you get.


Sure, the DM has the character sheets, but the framing of the "star in their own series" is the DM standing there, explaining the idea, framing the players AS A WHOLE, the entire party. Each of them has a unique role, each of them has a unique line and image in the song, Save the world! Be the Villain! Kiss a King! because that is how ensemble casts WORK.

The messaging in the books and such isn't "YOU! Yes, you are a god! You are the most important person at this table and all shall cater to your whims!", and if someone takes it that way, they are missing the entire message. It is "You (singular), you can be in your (plural) own series. You and your friends can be the stars of your own story, where instead of simply watching or simply reading, you are making the decisions."

Yes, the message does tell the player that their opinion, what they want to do, matters. Because if the players aren't engaged and interested? There is no game. If someone came to me and said "Hey, we are going to play DnD where we are all cannibal ghouls serial killing our way through towns as the monsters!" I wouldn't be interested. I wouldn't want to play that game. Not because I am a diva, but because my opinion matters too. We all need to work together, to craft the story. And DnD 5e is VERY clear about that.

 

[Chaosmancer]

To be fair to @tetrasodium , using what people post on here is not the best gauge for what happens at the "common table." The people on here debating are pretty well seeped in D&D. Now, that said, I am not saying I agree with tetrasodium, but I do think this forum is not a good litmus test for troubleshooting difficulties at a table (or inside one of the core rulebooks for that matter).

Right, but remember the claim. The claim is that this situation is fundamental to the ruleset. This isn't a problem with specific players, or specific tables, this is a RULES problem according to them.

Yet I've never seen it at any table I'm at. No one in this thread has said "yes this is a problem" except Tetrasodium. No livestream group has ever seemed to have this problem.

If this is a RULES problem, then why didn't the Drakenheim livestream have this problem? Why don't Dungeon Daddies have this problem? Why doesn't Dimension 20 have this problem? They are using the same rule set as the rest of us. So what is happening? My opinion? It isn't a rules problem.

And, as such, if we are going to find solutions for it, they can't be rules solutions.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I agree with you, and I do think tetrasodium's problem arises from running AL. I have been a part of AL at several different stores, and to be truthful, I found the process has a tendency to attract people that can't find a regular table. It also seems to attract a lot of first timers, kids, and older rules lawyers. Of course, that is just my experience, much like it's just tetrasodium's experience. Neither is set in stone, but a problem is a problem, and a solution should at least be considered before dismissal.

(And, again, in fairness, that was my experience in AL at three different places with 5e. My experience with 4e's Wednesday night play was fantastic. I was able to meet several great players (8 of them!). So, that time it worked out well.)

I think that it is a problem with AL, but also an issue that cannot be resolved by the rules of the game. May be guidance on the issue from the AL people would help but neither in game advise nor ludonarratie coercion is going to solve the issue if at the table discussion does not solve it.