Take that Vance!

[widderslainte]

Thanks Dreamchaser, you pretty much wrote up exactly what I had envisioned.

 

[DreamChaser]

hey no problem. I've been even mulling over the idea of giving this Feat to them for free. I don't think it is any more useful than a weapon (less so in some cases). Or maybe just make it available to them as one of their bonus feats (for wizards).

What do y'all think?

 

[Lela]

Re: here's my version that I made a while back

Special: The Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus feats can be taken to improve the magic-users skill with the Bolts.

It's a ranged attack, right? Why would anyone take Weapon Finesse for it?


Anyway, I like this idea. It seems really useful and does have the added benifit of giving some cool flavor to a Wizard, while still costing him huge sums of Cash.

I think, at the very least, it should be avalible to them (from the bonus feats). The problem with giving it to them for free is that Bards and Sorcerors will have reason to complain. I almost see reason for Sorcerors to have it more anyway (pulling pure raw magical energy through their own bodies, directing it through a small stone, and throwing it at foes). I would give it to a Sorceror and hope he's smart enough to think on how to use it well (use intimidate and bluff to scare the heck out of everybody around him).

I would also increase the range to 20 (at least) or 30 ft. An inforced 10' range incriment would make it almost impossible to use effectively. I mean, if their that close to the Wizard, he should be using his turn to back away ASAP, not doing a wopping 1d4 points of damage.

Otherwise, it's great!

 

[DreamChaser]

good thought...a little extra range might be a good idea. what does everyone think? 20 or 30 feet. Especially since MR grants total immunity, 30 feet is probably not too bad.

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Isn't there a feat out there (Tome & Blood or FRCS or Magic of Faerun) that allows a wizard to give up a slot 8 levels higher, to get permanent spell-like capability?

Thus, a 17th-level wizard could give up a 9th-level slot to cast magic missile, every round, from now until death. No need to rest, no need for normal material components, and so on.

In the Archmage prestige class, they can give up a slot to get three castings a day of a particular spell. Or they can give up a slot 3 levels higher to get 6 castings. Or they can give up a slot 6 levels higher to get 9 castings. All of them as spell-like abilities.

Just for comparison. And I probably don't remember the rules right.

 

[widderslainte]

hey no problem. I've been even mulling over the idea of giving this Feat to them for free. I don't think it is any more useful than a weapon (less so in some cases). Or maybe just make it available to them as one of their bonus feats (for wizards).

What do y'all think?

That was actually my original intent. Of course it does belong in my truly wacky campaign idea.

 

[The Furious Puffin]

Great idea actually, very cinimatic. Will go nicely with my next campagian idea.

*Swipes*

Thanks for that

Seriously though I don't view it as particully overpowering, except maybe slightly unbalancing at low levels.

I am thinking of giving a slowly increasing version to Sorcerers for free, and making it a series of feats for wizards.


I am willing to make the spell casters slightly harder in non-massive-spell slinging fights, as I don't think play balance will be affect, especially if I can make the feat less powerful than spells.

Hopefully giving it to Sorcrers for free will encourage them to take a broader range of spells, but my hopes are few.

 

[Lela]

Isn't there a feat out there (Tome & Blood or FRCS or Magic of Faerun) that allows a wizard to give up a slot 8 levels higher, to get permanent spell-like capability?

Thus, a 17th-level wizard could give up a 9th-level slot to cast magic missile, every round, from now until death. No need to rest, no need for normal material components, and so on.

In the Archmage prestige class, they can give up a slot to get three castings a day of a particular spell. Or they can give up a slot 3 levels higher to get 6 castings. Or they can give up a slot 6 levels higher to get 9 castings. All of them as spell-like abilities.

Just for comparison. And I probably don't remember the rules right.

Don't know too much about the Archmage (havn't bothered to study up on it) but your dead on with the ToaB feat. Which I considered fully.

The difference here is that

• SR completely negates it (w/o any check) while the wizard in your example could overcome the spell resistance of most creatures with little problems.
• A 17th level caster would be able to shoot a Magic Missile almost 300' while this would only go 30 without incurring penalties.
• Magic Missile always hits, while this takes a ranged attack roll (not a ranged touch).
• The wizard in your example, in fact in any example where that feat could be used, would shoot out 5 Magic Missiles a round (all garantied to hit). With this you only do as much as your normal attacks allow (2 in this case).
• This ends up costing 1 GP per use (which adds up fast). Magic Missile would cost nothing in monatary value.

A good point though. The way I see it, it does nothing more than a sling would do while still adding to the flavor of the class. In the end, it even costs a huge amount to use. Just think of a 1st or 2nd level character trying to pay for that.

 

[DreamChaser]

Lela brought up a good point about the cost. Should that be changed so that it is 10 shots per GP value (so IOW 1 shot per SP)? This would put it on par with the cost of crossbow bolts and wouldn't make it so expensive for low level (and thus usually poor) characters.

And also, I've thought of a feat to go along with this one.

Improved Mage Bolt [General, Exclusive]
You can use stored up magical energy to make your mage bolts more potent.

Prerequisites: Mage Bolt

Benefit: The magical energy you have stored for spells makes your bolts stronger. As long as you have prepared spells or spell slots left you gain a bonus to damage equal to the highest level slot or spell you have remaining. So if sorcerer's highest level unused slot is 5th level, his bolts gain a +5 to damage.


This was designed to allow more powerful magic users to do more with their mage bolts but it also reflects the dimishing power as they cast spells.

What do you think?

 

[Lela]

Lela brought up a good point about the cost. Should that be changed so that it is 10 shots per GP value (so IOW 1 shot per SP)? This would put it on par with the cost of crossbow bolts and wouldn't make it so expensive for low level (and thus usually poor) characters.

I realize we all have a tendency to look out for the little guy (in this case, the poor one). But, in this case, the idea of it being a resource that most 1st and 2nd level characters wouldn't be able to use too often is a good one. It should come into play a little later (4th or 5th) when it seems more likely that a character has a stronger connection with the Weave (or whatever).

A huge part of the balance in DnD is GP. This is often used to create the semblance that a lower level character really isn't that strong (a +5 weapon really makes a difference with a 1st level character). In this case, GP would be used to imply that a 2nd level Wizard can't throw small bolts of raw magic around with abandon.

I say, stick with the 1 GP per bolt. It costs a lot, but it makes the difference in the end. The Mage Bolt (not in italics for a reason) is mainly there for flavor. A 1st level Sorcorer should be resorting to a sling, but, at 5th, the magic inherent on the class should begin to domminate.