D&D 5E Tedium for balance. Should we balance powerful effects with bookkeeping?

[Umbran]

This was clearly a response to the idea that logistics aren't.

You are missing the point.

The point is that, in "realistic" depictions, logistics should be a separate function.

In a situation of real risk, the party would hire a quartermaster to handle logistics for them, because Gorm the Gormless knows cleaving, not accounting. But the quartermaster would stay back at the inn, not be out on the front lines of the action killing the enemy!

D&D isn't a game in which you play the Quartermasters.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You are missing the point.

The point is that, in "realistic" depictions, logistics should be a separate function.

In a situation of real risk, the party would hire a quartermaster to handle logistics for them, because Gorm the Gormless knows cleaving, not accounting. But the quartermaster would stay back at the inn, not be out on the front lines of the action killing the enemy!

D&D isn't a game in which you play the Quartermasters.

Sure, if Gorm doesn't want to deal with it personally, but you're putting a lot of faith into employees if you don't have a PC supervising this stuff just because everybody wants to jump off of dragons into volcanoes. Its all part of the game.

 

[Fanaelialae]

a week a day, two days, whatever. Still not a video game.

If you feel that way, either house rule it to your preferences (not that hard) or just accept that 5e isn't your cup of tea. Maybe consider giving the overused "video game" comparison a break. It was already a played out and lazy criticism over a decade ago, and it certainly hasn't improved with age.

 

[Micah Sweet]

If you feel that way, either house rule it to your preferences (not that hard) or just accept that 5e isn't your cup of tea. Maybe consider giving the overused "video game" comparison a break. It was already a played out and lazy criticism over a decade ago, and it certainly hasn't improved with age.

"Played out" isn't an argument against criticism, and I do homebrew 5e. Rather a lot.

 

[Vaalingrade]

People who say quick healing is like a videogame obviously never limped back to town in an older JRPG, bereft of potions, no MP, praying the game doesn't proc a random encounter and sending you back to the start of the zone.

Video games are why I hate slow healing.

 

[Umbran]

Sure, if Gorm doesn't want to deal with it personally, but you're putting a lot of faith into employees if you don't have a PC supervising this stuff just because everybody wants to jump off of dragons into volcanoes. Its all part of the game.

So, I was speaking to what should happen. Real armed forces have entire branches devoted to logistics, so that the people who shoot the guns don't have to worry about it.
I understand that logistics can be interesting - Settlers of Catan, and any other resource-management/building game, is basically an exercise in logistics. They can be very popular games.

But D&D isn't Settlers of Catan.

 

[billd91]

So, I was speaking to what should happen. Real armed forces have entire branches devoted to logistics, so that the people who shoot the guns don't have to worry about it.
I understand that logistics can be interesting - Settlers of Catan, and any other resource-management/building game, is basically an exercise in logistics. They can be very popular games.

But D&D isn't Settlers of Catan.

But D&D has not been a game that completely ignores logistics either. Or at least, that's the discussion, how much should it ignore or incorporate logistical issues?

 

[Baron Opal II]

I think that's what the conversation had evolved into as logistical matters are considered tedious. Which they can be, and there are means to mitigate that to make it more impactful.

I don't see why tedium would be intentionally designed into a game system. You want to have meaningful choices, but requiring frustration to fuel character abilities seems self-defeating. But, I'm one of low tolerance of such things, to my mind anyway.

I have an amazing board game called "Wizards" where you are a wizard travelling across magical isles trying to save them from falling into darkness. If you do enough of the thing (I forget) then the islands stop falling into shadow and the great evil is sealed away. There is some amazing lore, three classes of wizard with different spells, magic items to find, allies to make. The game is so tedious I've never completed a game. I just open it and read through it from time to time.

 

[MichaelSomething]

But D&D has not been a game that completely ignores logistics either. Or at least, that's the discussion, how much should it ignore or incorporate logistical issues?

Are we arguing that logistics is useful/important? Cause it is.

Are we arguing to skip logistics because it's boring and people want to focus on adventuring? I'm fine with that and would do it my games?

Though I nominate we skip the second discussion since it'll basically boil down to "The guard at the gate" topic that happened so many moons ago. I may link to that once I get to my PC.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

But D&D has not been a game that completely ignores logistics either. Or at least, that's the discussion, how much should it ignore or incorporate logistical issues?

I think the more interesting questions are:

What is it about the way we do logistical challenges that makes people dislike them?

How can logistical challenges be done better so that they are interesting/exciting/approachable?

Because these aren't about us expressing our preferences. They're about asking what isn't working and how that can be fixed.