Telepathy/Mind Reading

[Fenmarel]

Okay let me start this out by saying this is NOT a rant, I repeat NOT a rant, I am simply wanting to find out some information.......




What I have been wondering for some time is this......how can one character read another character's thoughts automatically? Don't you have to use a spell or a power to do that? And unless mistaken, which even though I have been gaming for over 15 years it's very likely seeing I don't do the spin off d20 crap just WoTC stuff, aren't you allowed a saving throw? If so then isn't the automatic reading of thoughts going against one's freedom of destiny? Sorry but this is an issue that I have never ever been able to get a straight answer on, most likely because most of the people I have asked play the "mind reader" characters.

Any solid answers or just thoughts on the matter would be highly appreciated.


Thanks in advance,

Jason, Fen's horrible typist and constant receiver of bashes to the
skull for being all thumbs!

 

[Nevine]

*cracks knuckles*

Don't you have to use a spell or a power to do that?

Yep.

And unless mistaken, which even though I have been gaming for over 15 years it's very likely seeing I don't do the spin off d20 crap just WoTC stuff, aren't you allowed a saving throw?

Yep. Even the spell Detect Thoughts which only reaches surface thoughts allows a save. Even"friendly" communication spells that allow allies to communicate through telepathy allow a saving throw though beside the save (harmless) appears. Also, creatures with Telepathy as a form of communication only means they can project their thoughts..they can't read them (unless the other person is actively trying to communicate I suppose).

If so then isn't the automatic reading of thoughts going against one's freedom of destiny?

Yes. Screwy, ain't it?

Edit: Covered a few other things.

 

[WizO_Bailey]

Thanks, Nevine. Saves me looking up offical stats. Good post, BTW.

Yeah, the Freedom of Destiny thing... while it is technically against someone's FoD, I don't think we can offially force this as it's a moot point really. You can basically just ignore someone trying to send you TP messages or ignore someone responding to a thought your character made. :onders:: Although, maybe, I guess if it got bad enough, where it could turn into harassing if someone kept bothering another with it. ::muses::

 

[Kathryn_aka_Kat]

Um, if you don't want people to read your thoughts, why post them?

The way I've been working it is that I only post clearly articulated thoughts (ones that my char has just barely managed to avoid saying out loud) or bits and pieces of underlying trains of thought that might have risen to the surface. And it's okay with me if anyone with mind-reading picks those up (though it upsets my char sometimes ). I certainly assume that the char has lots of other deeper thoughts that *aren't* being posted and therefore can't be read.

Of course people should respect <closed>, but given the above, I don't see the point of using it myself.

And as for saving throws and having mind-reading only as a spell, I don't play a straight AD&D char, so don't mind if others don't follow those rules either.

 

[Nevine]

Um, if you don't want people to read your thoughts, why post them?

..because they're in character.

And as for saving throws and having mind-reading only as a spell, I don't play a straight AD&D char, so don't mind if others don't follow those rules either.

Very true. There is no rules system set in stone for the ISRP area. However, I consider it a good rule of thumb that if someone else is going to mess with my character (without prior consent) they will play by my rules or leave me alone. That goes vice versa of course.

 

[Ladyshade]

~~~Mind waves oooOOooooh~~~

I think Nevine said it pretty well there.

I tend to use the 'think' bubbles to further the story a bit. I mean we are supposedly 'telling a story' in the making as far as I see it. I think it adds depth.

Also, ponder this. We are trying to react each other's characters based on what we can read on a computer screen. In real life we'd be seeing people's facial features, hearing their changed in tone, and other actions useful for figuring out what the other is trying to say. Not all characters are going to come right out and say exactly what's on their mind, but it will still be a good expression of their character to show others in the room just what they really are like on the inside. Also, it can get a little drawn out when one is trying to illustrate their character through every tiny little facial twitch they can think of.

Every now and then I'll use /think to try and show an aspect of my character. For example: Audearah is someone who at least tries to be diplomatic. She could be speaking perfectly calmly to someone and all the sudden a thought bubble would pop up with some worry of hers or another. It shows a bit of planning of character I would think. Anyone reading this would have a better chance of understanding that though she can be actively handling a situation in a calm manner, she still has all the same doubts as any other person in the same situation.

From a basicly 'gaming' point of view I do think it gets a little irritating when every last person in a room can just jump on a person's thought without seeming to need to concentrate at all. Even if, lets say, all the characters in a room have the ability. I would think people would at least show some sign that such concentration was taking up some of their attention.

 

[Kathryn_aka_Kat]

..because they're in character.

Thank you! I see your point...which points to another problem with char interaction: the different levels at which people are playing. Not levels as in power, but levels as in degree of realism and expectations. You are writing a story...where thoughts are posted so that people can appreciate the underlying motivations and feelings of your char. Others are playing it more on the surface, more for fun?, and so see anything posted as fair game. (Given a choice, I prefer your way.)

I don't think this is just a matter of new vs. experienced players, though new players are more likely not to notice the difference between thoughts and words/actions. I hope at least that people pay attention to your preferences if you PM about it, but I'm not sure how to get them to expect it otherwise. As has been pointed out in other threads, the people who aren't playing seriously are the ones least likely to read the message boards.

(( Edit: agree with Ladyshade, and would have addressed her post as well, but I seem to have the same problem here as in chat...still typing a reply to one person when something else happens in between! ))

 

[Neo_CorpseReliver]

Nevine beat me to it. Quite right in all he said. Detect Thoughts still takes three rounds to even begin picking up surface thoughts and once a target makes a Will save, they prevent you from reading their thoughts. So since the area isn't full of dicebot rolls, one has to assume it is up to the other person to decide if they want their character's thoughts read.

Someone could always say they used a Permanency spell tied into a Detect Thoughts spell, but that would still not deny the target a Will save. It'd probably work so that once a target has made their save, they would not be able to attempt it again on that same target till a day has passed.

 

[Davon]

Good thread, Fen and better response Nevine.

Yes, I agree on all points, particularly with Dearah's take on it. Thoughts are an important way of adding to you character in a different way, to show how their mind works more, their motivations and other things, that you as a player are in tune with, but want to share, and in some cases, think is important to justify certain things. It is also a way of getting things off the character's chest, WITHOUT broadcasting it, the oold 'bottle it up' syndrom.

As for the technicalities of the mindreaders, yes, very few would have a general 'I pick up any roving thoughts' ability, it would be a spell, ability or psionic power that they have to activate on each and ever specific ocasion they want to hear a said person's thoughts. And remember, in most cases, there is a very limited number of times per day they CAN do that, spell casters in particular...you are really going to memorize Detect Thoughts, ESP and such and nothing else? Even dedicated psionic telepaths will be using power points or such to do it each time. SO I do hope IF such characters get in trouble (i.e. violence), that they find they are rather short on abilites, because they have already burned through a lot to be nosey! . And yes, as saves are possible in most cases, it does knock into freedom, they are assuming your character has failed a save...that is not their call, it's yours. This is all of course IF you use D&D or similar as a base for characters on Wiz, but still may hold sense in parts for character concepts outside that. One other thing is that, though I know that in current D&D this is not the case, but in other fantasy set ups, psionics and magic do not mix well..that is to say, if you use one, you will not be using the other..just a thought!

I know PM's slow things up, but maybe if you are going to act on another character's thoughts in a major way, you should talk to the player first?

 

[Fenmarel]

From what has been posted I had thought as much but just wanted to get the views from others on this matter.

Now please don't think I am going to use something as trivial as them reading my character's mind and turn it into harassment. I actually have fun with the banter that usually entails when a character mysteriously reads one of my character's minds. One of my favorite quotes was by Fenmarel to another character..."even a mouse can control when it squeaks, are you less than a mouse in that you can't control your abilities?". The one thing most tend to overlook when they do read thoughts is that hardly anyone is going to welcome the invasion of their privacy. I had a character kill another character for that very thing, but it just so happened the character was plotting against another character and the poor telepath chose the wrong moment to read his thoughts. Even though the thoughts he was having were benign he had to make sure that what was deeper in his mind hadn't been compromised.

As far as the ignoring thing that is very hard to do when someone looks at your character and starts answering thoughts running through his/her head. I think a little common courtesy should be used with this "ability" that so many seem to have. As Davon said a pm would be a very nice way to find out, and what if the character has protection against such things?

Jason