Tell me why Druids are the most powerful class

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
I keep hearing all over the place that Druids are the most powerful class. Everytime I ask people why this is the case, someone gives me an example that either:

a) requires at least 4 rounds worth of "buff up" time before actually attacking anything

or

b) seems to contradict the rules or common sense. i.e. turning into an octopus and then using 8 longswords (don't get more weapon attacks when wildshaped) or turning into a large creature and animal growthing yourself (two effects that increase size don't stack), casting spikes and brambles (which, IMHO, breaks the two effects from basically the same source don't stack rules)

Most of the time, I find that BDFs defeat enemies faster while taking less damage than druids do.

I'm not being patronizing or anything, just that I've rarely seen druids as useful except as secondary fighters or secondary wizards. And since there seems to be a widely held belief that Druids are the most powerful class, I'd really like to know why.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Narfellus

First Post
In my experience high level druids can be very powerful, too powerful at times. The ability to be an Enlarged Dire Bear with Greater Magic Fang, casting Flamestrikes and healing himself constantly can be a real downer for the fighter in your party. The Core Rules have turned the historic druid into a very powerful class to match blow for blow the escalating power of the other classes. I think with a good DM and some base rules that the druid is manageable, but yeah, i think they're pretty powerful. A lot of their lower level spells aren't too useful unless you're outside, but at higher level they can bring down serious mayhem. Just like all peace-loving druids should do!
 

Voadam

Legend
Turn into a dire bear and use improved grapple with their big size. Very effective.

Plus good buffs for their animal form/animal companion/summoned creatures.

Better summoners than a conjurer. With more hp and BAB.
 

mikebr99

Explorer
Majoru Oakheart said:
I keep hearing all over the place that Druids are the most powerful class. Everytime I ask people why this is the case, someone gives me an example that either:

turning into a large creature and animal growthing yourself (two effects that increase size don't stack), casting spikes and brambles (which, IMHO, breaks the two effects from basically the same source don't stack rules)
Wildshaping isn't a size change... it's a form change. A Druid, whildshaped into a Dire Bear is a valid target for Animal Growth.

Mike
 

mikebr99

Explorer
The arguement is based mainly on the fact that most of the other classes are 'one trick ponies'.

Fighters are good at fighting...

Wizards are good at spellcasting...

Rogues are good at... neither of those... ;)

Monks & Paladins... good at staying alive.


But the Druid! Why he can be good at any of those things! YMMV


Mike
 

Crothian

First Post
Wild shape has few limitation, and it seems SMs ajust allow the player to go through any and all monster sources to pick the most powerful creautres they can.
 

atra2

Explorer
To see the power of the druid, as with any other caster class, you have to look at all 9 levels of spells, identify the best spell or spells at each level, and then presume the player is an excellent wargamer (not powergamer, wargamer) and casts those spells over and over.

3.5 Druid has Shapechange as a 9th level spell, just like a Wizard, but the druid has two good saving throws (fort and will), d8 HP, and better BAB.

That's for starters. There are other PHB examples, but it really gets grody when you include Complete Divine/Defenders of the Faith (3.5 vs. 3.0).

Then the Druid & Companion both benefit from Animal Growth, etc.

You don't need 4 rounds of prep. Even 1 round can do.

Round 1: Wildshape, move into flank; companion takes flank (cause you flanked in a way to "pickle" the foe) and attacks once. Foe not impressed, concentrates on
party tank.

Round 2: If party tank whiffed, Animal Growth. If not, you and companion just melee, trusting YOUR PARTY to buff all three of you (including party tank).

Round 3+ continue battle.

In other situations, if you have enough bonus tricks and a reasonable DM, you might
train your Bear companion to grapple a target of your choice on round 1, then you
follow up with a spell.

Another option vs. foes whose AC may not be that great is to use your highest level
summon over and over, to give your Companion some buddies.

From other threads I think I agree with this overview of D&D combat:

levels 1 to (8 to 10 or so) = Tanks rule, but need healing and buffs to excel.

levels 11+ = Casters rule, using Battlefield Control (Evard's, Acid Fog, some other
uber high level spells like Bigby's or Blade Barrier) to subdivide foes into bite-size
chunks for tanks to eat up, without any buffs on the tanks. And if the tanks get
hurt, the Cleric/Druid yawns and casts Heal.

This is in a typical combat-centered campaign. In a balanced campaign, one that is
far more than a Theatre performance of rules-eschewing elitists, yet not the realm
of number-crunching Mensa members, versatility, even in skills, is king, and a player
who is good at RPing can overcome most lacks of mechanical support, such as a
pure Fighter giving a great war rally speech, and the Bard with Craft Alchemy maxed
with Skill Focus is important for how many flasks of alchemist's fire he can produce per
week.

But, if all you do is party vs. small # of foes combat, the DM biases for types of foes
will show through, players will adapt, and Druids may or may not be a very powerful
class.

(The DM will see a lot of PC clerics if all he puts on the board is undead, for example.
Even with Turning Undead being broken (24 HD skeleton is CR 6. What 6th level cleric
can turn that?) Clerics can still Searing Light, Spontaneous Cure, GMW a mace for
the fighter, etc.)

So keep your players in mind, and think about what, for example, they would do
if an Entangle hit them right after they entered a Spike Stones area, just for
starters at low level.

I can see an Orc Shaman actually being a Druid, and setting up just such an
occurrence for his Orc Archers to take advantage of.

Everything in D&D is situational. Even the "tanks rule level 1-10, casters 11+" is
situational, because eventually D&D also devolves at 11+ into:

"Who won initiative?"

Maybe the Evil party's Monk won, and races over to grapple the PC Wizard. The
PC Cleric goes next, but doesn't have a good way to remove the Monk, who has
good saves and can resist Holy Smite, Evade Flame Strike, etc. so the Cleric buffs
the party (Prayer) then the Evil Fighter Spirited Charges and strikes the party Rogue
for 50+ damage, and the Rogue fails the fort save, dc 15, and dies.

That's a very real situation for a 14th level party or so where enemy melee vastly
changes the battle purely by winning init.

4 12th level enemy PCs = CR 14, which is fine for a party of 4 14th level PCs to face.

The presence of the Evil Monk could mean the Evil party is down a caster, so the
remaining 3 PCs can take care of business, but there's still problems to consider,
as the PC Cleric uses high AC to stall the Mounted Evil Guy while the PC Fighter
executes a Full Power Attack sequence against the grappling Monk, and probably
slays the Monk in 2 rounds.

How well that Fighter rolls and what the other Good and Evil PCs do will affect things,
but it's clear that the non-casters on the Evil side got an advantage despite being
lower level, and not having an opening Evard's or other Nuke to start the battle.

Look over that Druid list, and see if, by replacing the party Cleric with a Druid, you
can make things better for the good guys. I bet you can. Not that Clerics are
useless, but that Druids are quite versatile.
 

Felix

Explorer
Melee: The Druid can Wildshape and tangle up with foes, and has the ability to heal himself passably well.

Healing: Not as good as the Cleric, but he can prepare Cure spells, and Wildshape heals himself.

Scouting: Again, Wildshape is key here, and he can become a fairly innocuous rat in urban environments, or a hawk in natural ones. As such he is generally undetectable by enemies because he is in plain sight. Nature Sense gives the Druid a slight edge over the Ranger in Survival, as long as it's not about tracking Favored Enemies.

Support Spells: The Druid has some great buffs, and while Summon Nature's Ally doesn't have the punch that Summon Monster does, he can do it at a whim. He has the best caster's anti-melee abjuration in the game in Anti-life Shell. Can Scry for "free", and pretty much anywhere.

Attack Spells: These don't really come into their own until the higher levels, but when the Druid reaches 5th level spells he starts laying the hurt down. If you are skeptical, read Sepulchrave's story hour... in it you will see a single druid laying waste to an Army with strong clerical support.

Skills: Outdoorsy in nature, but they arn't bad; Listen and Spot go a long way, specially for casters. And while Clerics, Wizards and Sorcs languish under 2+INT for skills, the Druid has a nice 4+.

Information Gathering: In natural environments the Druid is the best info-gatherer in the game, what with Stone Tell, Speak with Animals and Speak with Plants. In urban environs, he has Diplomacy as a class skill, and the role-playing advantage of being able to say that he represents Nature... and that Nature is something the urbanites don't want to upset.

Character Interaction: Again, the Druid can rely on Diplomacy to help here. It won't be as powerful because the Bluff, Sense Motive and Know (royalty) skill are cross-class, but it can be strong. The Druid's spell list does not help much here. It's campaign specific, but a society of druids is common, and a built-in support for the Druid character.



So while the Druid doesn't totally dominate one area, he performs very well in all; something none of the other classes can boast of to the degree the druid can.
 
Last edited:



Remove ads

Top