Tempest Fighter makes me happy.

[Duelpersonality]

I wonder if this will make the katar a more viable choice, being the only high-crit off-hand weapon? There is still the handaxe/Deadly Axe combo, which comes with the same feat investment but doesn't kick in until paragon tier. It also has some interesting Sneak of Shadows possibilities.

 

[lightblade]

Like it very much, but... what do you loose to take tempest fighter?

The ability to wear scale armor, if you want the damage bonus.
The ability to use a shield (you don't get the reflex bonus, and can't use a heavy shield / shield specialization).

 

[Kzach]

I think they did, unless you mean "as good as rangers," in which case it would make rangers redundant. As it is, if I saw a couple more powers spread between 1st and 23rd level that were two-weapon based, I'd pick it up in a heartbeat. Even just using these, it's still worthwhile, though not quite as good as sword-and-board for fighter.

No, I mean as in there is no reason to be a 2H fighter. The benefits simply don't outweigh the negatives. You get no bonus damage wielding a 2H weapon, unless it's versatile, and the loss of +2 AC/Reflex is too big to ignore.

In 3.5, you got 1.5x your strength modifier damage when wielding a weapon 2H, in 4e you get nothing, and in fact you're better off with a versatile weapon and being a 1H weapon fighter (the bonus to hit) and only using 2H on the rare occasion that damage is more important than defence for a defender.

This 2WF variant, however, compensates by either increasing the AC, or increasing the damage (with lighter armour). There is decent compensation for not using a shield. 2H fighters get no such benefit.

 

[Shroomy]

I thought that the Martial Powers book was going to give the 2H fighter some love. Am I mistaken?

 

[Cadfan]

I ran some basic numbers. Its impossible to really know power level without reviewing, you know, powers, but it seems a very balanced choice. Sits right between the existing sword/shield fighter and the two handed weapon fighter in terms of both offense and defense.

 

[Plane Sailing]

No, I mean as in there is no reason to be a 2H fighter. The benefits simply don't outweigh the negatives. You get no bonus damage wielding a 2H weapon, unless it's versatile,

You do more damage with power attack

Your weapon has a bigger W for multiple W attacks

You do more damage with Reaping Strike

2H weapons are fine (rather than the overpowered cheese that they've been for the last few years) IMO

 

[Ginnel]

I thought that the Martial Powers book was going to give the 2H fighter some love. Am I mistaken?

I'm of the opinion it needs it, an extra 1 point of damage on average for being a two handed fighter and the loss of 2 reflex and 2 ac defence and -2 armor check is a bit much of a negative for this poorer class option.
It looks like the two hander style is balanced with sword and board with it gaining a free feat to try and balance the AC and Ref damage that a 2 handed fighter doesn't even have the chance of gaining, maybe the feat two handed weapon defence +1AC +1Ref -1 armor check would do it?

and that extra AC and Reflex lets you avoid more damage as you go up in level as well just like the extra point of damage from your two handed weapon goes up as you go up in level.

It seems to me as well Power attack is almost a trap with to-hit being such a hard thing to get nowadays and the riders going with the effects being quite important.

Reaping strike, well with a shield you wouldn't take it anyway if you weren't a two handed weapon fighter, because of tide of iron and cleave are the sensible choices, same with the new two weapon fighter power you'd take that and cleave and both of these are superior to Reaping strike in my opinion.

This is of course based on making a character who is optimised/powergamed/munchkined.

I'm quite happy with my Fighter with his two types of shield longsword and javelins taking twohanded weapon speciality and tide of iron oh and also ritual caster.

 

[Mouseferatu]

The ability to wear scale armor, if you want the damage bonus.
The ability to use a shield (you don't get the reflex bonus, and can't use a heavy shield / shield specialization).

Plus, I'm guessing that the tempest fighter probably doesn't get the +1 to either one-handed or two-handed weapons that "normal" fighters get.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

It looks like as a tempest fighter you'll have the same to hit bonus as either Sword&Board or Great Weapon fighters, provided you use 'offhand' weapons (such as the shortsword). Damage wise, you're looking at +1 with non 'offhand' weapons, so you're effectively power-attacking by losing the to-hit bonus, or far better, +2 with 'offhand' weapons, which brings your best damage shortsword or handaxe up to 1d6+2, which has a nice minimum, average as good as 1d10 but maximum as a longsword. Since you're attacking twice at-will, you'll never deal the devastating criticals that a GW fighter might, but you might hit twice for comparable damage since you don't get your strength modifier.

AC-wise, you are very flexible. Stick with chainmail and it'll be like you're in scale thanks to your feat. Go for scale and you'll have plate AC but in exchange for your damage bonus. So you can emulate the S&B fighter with a light shield, but not do better, or you can have slightly less AC than a plated GW fighter with a slightly higher damage output (I think, depending on your chance to hit). They run the whole spectrum and that's pretty cool.

 

[That One Guy]

I'd prefer if they made 2H weapon fighters useful instead of utterly redundant.

Has anyone run the math of power attack sure strike thing? ...actually... has anyone ran math for moderate strength power attacks w/ sure strike & two hand weapons? Regardless, I concur. A little love for the 2H Fighter'd be nice... maybe a few powers and feats or something.

Like it very much, but... what do you loose to take tempest fighter?

Generally better crit damage and AC. Also one has even less of a reason to take power attack?
I'm actually thinking a lot of these fighters will end up wearing hide armor if they have really high Dex. The more I think about this build the more I want to play one. Multiclassed into rogue. With dagger master or shadow assassin. Just saying.