Tharizdun? (now also a discussion of Castle Greyhawk)

[NeghVar]

Re: Oroblems with Original Castle Greyhawk

Before blaming publishers, consider the following:

First, Rob agrees with me that the best way to recreate a version of the material in question for general use is to have the base as close as possible to the original rules system. That means OA/D&D, of course. Thus the logical publisher is certainly Kenzer.

Gary,

I recommend you approach Scott Greene from Necromancer Games, and see if he would do D20 conversions of said material. Frankly, if you "dual-stat" Castle Greyhawk...you will not only please the "purist" crowd, as well as, D20 crowd (that seems to have deep purses).

Just a thought...

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Rob and I are agreed that presenting the castle-dungeons (and environs) material in a form as close as possible to the original will best conver the spirit and "soul" of the work. Unfortunately, we are precluded from doing the work in OAD&D terms.

This leaves us the following possibilities, singly or in some combination:

Generic fantasy system

HackMaster

D20

There is also theproblem of priducing the material. It is extensive and will likely require about four man-years, two years of Rob and I working on it, to cmplete the entire thing. Neither of us can afford to work for two years time thus without a publishing agreement and advances against each part of the work--let us say it will come to eight products for sake of this exposition. Imagine working without pay for two yars, then submitting the work to a publisher--who might turn it down--and finally getting payments beginning about three or more years after you began the project! That's fine for the independently wealthy, but...

By breaking it up into managable portions, each a complete product in itself but with links to others so as to be used as a portion of a greater whole, we have clear objectives to meet, advances against royalties, and royalty income coming in before the whole work is completed.

So far we haven't decided how best to manage the system base used to write the rules, not has an eager publisher stepped up to assure us that funding will be there for us.

Frankly, if it were possible to do this an an OAD&D priduct I'l likely bash ahead without a deal lined up, and I think Rob would too. We are both certain of the potential demand from OAD&D fans and the HM enthusiasts too. As I noted initially, it ain't gonna fly that way.

We also have a problem in regards to prduct identification. We can't call the work what it really is, and what existed before the TSR trade marked name, Castle Greyhawk

As it stands, I am not about to rush ahead with anything. After all this time a few weeks or months won't matter at all...

Cheerio,
Gary

 

[grodog]

Well, keep us all in the loop, as events develop futher. Some of us have been waiting a long time for the Castle to be published, and would love to see product announcements from The Dragon come true

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Grodog,

We are hashing this over trying to arrive at a system to use that will reflect the spirit and play of the original work. There are various threads on the matter at Dragonsfoot, Kenzer, and the PPP boards.

As it stands, I believe it will be some weeks before we reach a decision as to going forward, and if so, with what system.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Arnwyn]

Just out of curiosity, why is there so much work involved? Haven't you been gaming in it since the '70's?

(Pure curiosity on my part - I've always been intrigued about this mysterious and mythical "Castle Greyhawk" and how big it *really* is...)

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Just out of curiosity, why is there so much work involved? Haven't you been gaming in it since the '70's?

(Pure curiosity on my part - I've always been intrigued about this mysterious and mythical "Castle Greyhawk" and how big it *really* is...)

Heh, and maybe you are different, but my typical notes for a full dungeon level with 25 areas noted for encounter or some sepcial thing (trick, trap, whatever) take up one side of one page of fine-lined paper, one line per encounter.

Much of all was simply remembered, made up on the spot, or noted on the various maps with cryptic symbols or shorthand. rob and I managed it just fine. Almost any other DM would be quite at a loss.

Furthermore, there were two versions of the castle and dungeons. My original one had upper ruins, 13 levels down, and several side levels. When Rob joined me as co-DM, we not only merged his levels into the original, but the castle works were expanded, a whole new, large first level was done, and yet more new levels were added. That more than doubles the size of the material we used.

To recreate a work that is drawn from both versions, is managable in size (version two is not!), and usable by all DMs. we need to draw from the best of the lot, restructure from that, and then go over everything to make sure we include all the special features. Hooking all that up, detailing encounters, is simply a massive undertaking.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[zealot73]

There was an adventure featuring Tharizdun in a Dungeon Magazine last year. I can't remember the name of it but on the cover it referenced it by quote "Help! I'm Having Tharizdun's Love Child!". It was great! Complete with new spells for his Clerics and a new type of Undead.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

1. Tharizdun != Elder Elemental God/Eye

2. Tharizdun is a Greater God as well. Another post Gygax Greyhawk gaffe. I don't think the god listed in the issue of Dragon would require a coalition of every other god to imprison him. Maybe they did it on purpose for reasons I can't fathom?

Oh well it's easy enough to change.

 

[herald]

Ialways imagined the current write up to reflect that his Lesser god status. Ergo, should those restrictions should be removed, ...Katie bar the door.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

The way Tharizdun was originally conceived and presented, he was so bad that all other Evil preferred he be kept locked up, but when it appeared that he was free and able, those of scheeming. planning sort fell into place behind him.

The Elder Elemental God was once nearly as potent as Bit T was portrayed in the "Gord the Rogue books, but being isolated and imprisoned weakened his power. Even if loosed, the EEG would be no more potent than any other of the major deities--at first, anyway. The CE folks would likely help in restoring the EEG to such extent as they umnagined it would benefit their own power

Cheers,
Gary