xigbar
Explorer
Anyway, to answer the problem; Anything immune to mind affecting abilities (that's anything immune to sneak attacks, usually, as well as spellcasters with buffs) your DC becomes arbitrary.
The Bar'ds Nuclear Option
Anyway, to answer the problem; Anything immune to mind affecting abilities (that's anything immune to sneak attacks, usually, as well as spellcasters with buffs) your DC becomes arbitrary.
Greenfield
Adventurer
Let's ask a different question: In my SRD, the Fascinate ability is listed as "Spell Like".
What spell level? It makes a difference v level specific defenses, such as Minor Globe of Invulnerability.
A Bard gets the ability based not on their level, but on how many ranks they have in Perform. (At least in 3.* anyway).
Personally I think that one should be SU not SP, but I can almost see why they couldn't call it that: It requires concentration.
I'm not sure how Dispel Magic would or should affect it either.
What spell level? It makes a difference v level specific defenses, such as Minor Globe of Invulnerability.
A Bard gets the ability based not on their level, but on how many ranks they have in Perform. (At least in 3.* anyway).
Personally I think that one should be SU not SP, but I can almost see why they couldn't call it that: It requires concentration.
I'm not sure how Dispel Magic would or should affect it either.
Grogg of the North
Adventurer
Something else to point out, you can only fascinate for 1 round / bard level and can only affect 1 + 1 /3 levels (2 at 4, 3 at 7, etc.). At 15th level, you can affect 5 people.
Trainers for the dinosaurs would solve the fascinate problem, coming out at the sound with weapons drawn and snapping whips.
Have another bard counter song, substituting that roll for their save.
Another option for a BBEG, which may be a bit jerkish, is to train all your guard animals to associate Perfom (Your bard's selection) with pain. Any performance throws them into a homicidal rage as they come after the source of the pain.
Trainers for the dinosaurs would solve the fascinate problem, coming out at the sound with weapons drawn and snapping whips.
Have another bard counter song, substituting that roll for their save.
Another option for a BBEG, which may be a bit jerkish, is to train all your guard animals to associate Perfom (Your bard's selection) with pain. Any performance throws them into a homicidal rage as they come after the source of the pain.
RUMBLETiGER
Adventurer
Teach creatures to hate Bardic performances? That's kinda awesome, in an evil sort of way.
GMMichael
Guide of Modos
+30 is not terribly unreasonable for 15th level. For perspective, 15th level is where the druid can turn into 24' long animals, and the monk can punch an enemy and just will it to die. So it's a powerful level.
That said, check your +6 charisma bonus, "couple feats," Headband, and buffs for stacking issues.
THAT said, most other bard abilities reach between 30 and 60 feet. So Fascinate shouldn't go beyond that. And if the DM is trying to challenge a 15th level party by putting dumb brutes on a collision course with them, he's underestimating them.
So I wouldn't curb that power, but I would give the PCs some different problems to handle, like really bad tempered sea bass. Or multiple-layered fights, like maybe some dumb brutes, but there's also an environmental challenge like acid rain, and there's innocent villagers to rescue before they get burned alive, and the local necromancer is finishing his summoning of an ancient incorporeal undead (who eats Charisma for breakfast), and the best way to stop the ritual is to use a non-fascinate power in a skill-check battle.
That said, check your +6 charisma bonus, "couple feats," Headband, and buffs for stacking issues.
THAT said, most other bard abilities reach between 30 and 60 feet. So Fascinate shouldn't go beyond that. And if the DM is trying to challenge a 15th level party by putting dumb brutes on a collision course with them, he's underestimating them.
So I wouldn't curb that power, but I would give the PCs some different problems to handle, like really bad tempered sea bass. Or multiple-layered fights, like maybe some dumb brutes, but there's also an environmental challenge like acid rain, and there's innocent villagers to rescue before they get burned alive, and the local necromancer is finishing his summoning of an ancient incorporeal undead (who eats Charisma for breakfast), and the best way to stop the ritual is to use a non-fascinate power in a skill-check battle.
Greenfield
Adventurer
No, +30 isn't all that crazy, for a skill-monkey's specialty skill. But it's what that +30 meant that was setting off alarms.
Of course, +30 is kind of insane for a 15th level character, if that character isn't a skill monkey and/or hasn't focused on a particular skill.
Consider a typical Fighter, Sorcerer, Cleric etc: Intelligence isn't a stat you necessarily pump, and you get two points per level. If you've made Int a dump stat, as many fighter types do, you get 1 per level.
In that situation, you're looking at spending half of all your Skill points (or more), throughout an entire career, on one skill, spending the rest on Synergy skills, and then dedicating Feats and magic item picks on top of that, to get the rest of that +30.
That skill would be pretty much the only thing you're any good at at all.
So, in that sense, +30 would require a certain amount of "crazy" to get.
Of course, +30 is kind of insane for a 15th level character, if that character isn't a skill monkey and/or hasn't focused on a particular skill.
Consider a typical Fighter, Sorcerer, Cleric etc: Intelligence isn't a stat you necessarily pump, and you get two points per level. If you've made Int a dump stat, as many fighter types do, you get 1 per level.
In that situation, you're looking at spending half of all your Skill points (or more), throughout an entire career, on one skill, spending the rest on Synergy skills, and then dedicating Feats and magic item picks on top of that, to get the rest of that +30.
That skill would be pretty much the only thing you're any good at at all.
So, in that sense, +30 would require a certain amount of "crazy" to get.
