D&D 5E The Case for a Magic Item Shop?

[Hussar]

That entirely depends on the economy of the campaign. I don't picture there being such an economy in Middle Earth, for example (perhaps there was, but it's not how I picture it). If magic items are expensive/rare enough that only rulers can afford them (and, for example, adventurers, if very lucky, might find long-lost swords belonging to long-dead kings), then where's the scope for a black market. To go back to one of your example, if MTG cards cost hundreds of thousands of pounds each, then there wouldn't be FLGS with cases full of them. Of course, most D&D campaigns do have magic items much more common than this, but it isn't a given.

There don't have to be "cases of them" though. There only has to be one - the one the PC wants to buy. Anything else is pretty much immaterial. There was a trade in artefacts in the real world throughout the Middle Ages and art has been traded and dealt in for at least that long and probably much longer. All this despite the fact that both artefacts and art were far out of the reach of the vast majority of people.

If you don't want magic shops, that's fine. It's your game world, do what you want. But, I'm not really buying the justification here. Magic items are permanent, meaning that even if only one magic item per year is created in all of England (to pick a geographical location), by the time of the Middle Ages, you have a thousand permanent magic items floating around. More if you think that pre-Roman societies could also create magic items. That's more than enough to have an economy.

The issue, from a world building standpoint, is really that PC's often have FAR too much wealth. It's ridiculous that by about 7th level, a PC (and certainly a PC party) is wealthier than some kingdoms. At least in terms of buying power. They've got buckets of treasure. And the reason they have buckets of treasure is because adventures are designed to give out buckets of treasure. Why on earth would an orc tribe have a gem worth a thousand gp? Imagine if I said that every hamlet of 30-50 humans had several thousand gp worth of easily portable wealth. It would be ridiculous. Yet, adventure after adventure, those kobolds or orcs or trolls or whatever, are packing around thousands and thousands of GP worth of treasure.

Why aren't humans constantly raiding orcs? Orcs are pretty obviously richer than humans.

 

[KarinsDad]

That entirely depends on the economy of the campaign. I don't picture there being such an economy in Middle Earth, for example (perhaps there was, but it's not how I picture it). If magic items are expensive/rare enough that only rulers can afford them (and, for example, adventurers, if very lucky, might find long-lost swords belonging to long-dead kings), then where's the scope for a black market. To go back to one of your example, if MTG cards cost hundreds of thousands of pounds each, then there wouldn't be FLGS with cases full of them. Of course, most D&D campaigns do have magic items much more common than this, but it isn't a given.

Ferrarii's are relatively rare and expensive, so most people (i.e. commoners) cannot afford them.

But, adventurers are not commoners. An adventurer in our real world (say a diamond thief) who could break and enter into various vaults / high end stores and steal the goods, would easily be able to afford a Ferrarii. Not much different than in a D&D campaign world. The PCs are breaking and entering, murdering (a real world thief typically would not do this), and stealing. By doing so, they end up with quite a bit of wealth. They often sometimes have wealthy patrons or employers to hire them to do so.

Not seeing how a black market would not exist.

 

[Hussar]

I'd take it a step further KarinsDad. I can't see how a market in any form wouldn't exist. Black market presumes some form of legal restriction. There's no real reason you can't have perfectly legal trade in magic items.

 

[KarinsDad]

I'd take it a step further KarinsDad. I can't see how a market in any form wouldn't exist. Black market presumes some form of legal restriction. There's no real reason you can't have perfectly legal trade in magic items.

I think that some magic items should be legal and some illegal, just based on their power or how dangerous they are. Just like in the real world.

Without the proper licensing, a person cannot buy dynamite in the U.S. I don't see much difference between dynamite and a Staff of Fireballs. But they can buy a handgun (+1 hand crossbow?).

So, it is perfectly reasonable (and even plausible) for some weaker and/or non-damaging magic items to be sold in magic shops legally and other potent and dangerous magic items to be illegal (and hence, black market).

Would a king really let a Vorpal Greatsword or a Sphere of Annihilation in the hands of an adventurer if he knew about it?


Granted, I suspect that most DMs do not go down this rabbit hole that far. Kind of like the fact that in a super hero genre game, the superheroes are not arrested on sight for having dangerous and deadly powers.


Most D&D DMs will probably either go for some magic shops, or they won't. The option of putting a lot of detailed thought and campaign rules on this (i.e. some kingdoms have some restrictions, other do not, others are heavily restricted) would tend to not be done in most games.

However, I have seen games with Adventure Charters (like in Cormyr) where adventurers have to be licensed with the state. So, this is not too much different from that.

 

[Grainger]

There don't have to be "cases of them" though. There only has to be one - the one the PC wants to buy. Anything else is pretty much immaterial. There was a trade in artefacts in the real world throughout the Middle Ages and art has been traded and dealt in for at least that long and probably much longer. All this despite the fact that both artefacts and art were far out of the reach of the vast majority of people.

If you don't want magic shops, that's fine. It's your game world, do what you want. But, I'm not really buying the justification here. Magic items are permanent, meaning that even if only one magic item per year is created in all of England (to pick a geographical location), by the time of the Middle Ages, you have a thousand permanent magic items floating around. More if you think that pre-Roman societies could also create magic items. That's more than enough to have an economy.

The issue, from a world building standpoint, is really that PC's often have FAR too much wealth. It's ridiculous that by about 7th level, a PC (and certainly a PC party) is wealthier than some kingdoms. At least in terms of buying power. They've got buckets of treasure. And the reason they have buckets of treasure is because adventures are designed to give out buckets of treasure. Why on earth would an orc tribe have a gem worth a thousand gp? Imagine if I said that every hamlet of 30-50 humans had several thousand gp worth of easily portable wealth. It would be ridiculous. Yet, adventure after adventure, those kobolds or orcs or trolls or whatever, are packing around thousands and thousands of GP worth of treasure.

Why aren't humans constantly raiding orcs? Orcs are pretty obviously richer than humans.

Magic items get lost or destroyed over time, though. Some might be buried with nobles (they might have dummy "burial" swords interred with them, and pass on the magic sword to their heirs, but don't count on it; they want to use that sword in the afterlife!). There are always ways to justify a lack of magic items, or indeed a surfeit of them. And of the magic items that are inherited: people aren't going to part with them - if there are only a couple of thousand in England (in your example), they're basically in the hands of knights and barons. Why would they hand these over to commoners, or to their potential rivals? Again, it depends on the social structure of the campaign. There's nothing wrong with a campaign having a trade in magic items (and indeed, in many campaigns it would be illogical for this not to be present) but it depends on the set-up of the game world.

I agree with you about PC wealth (again, in many campaigns; I keep my PCs relatively poor!). As far as I'm concerned, Monty Haul or grotesque power escalation should be avoided at all costs. However, there's no reason to follow the treasure tables as written* (actually, in BECMI, I often did, and they never seemed to generate that much treasure). It depends on the focus of the campaign. If the PCs want to build fortresses, or hire armies at higher levels (and I will be encouraging that if my campaign lasts that long), that stuff is expensive.

By the way, I'm not prescribing anything for the OP's campaign. It depends on the DM and players, and their particular tastes; I'm just trying to emphasise that there is no generic "right" way to do things - it's a great thing that every D&D game is different, and that the game supports wildly different assumptions by groups of DMs and players.


*As there aren't any treasure tables yet for 5e, I've been handing out what I feel like. In my new game, one player opined that the 30gp the local baron was offering for a short quest (for the entire party) wasn't very much, even after I pointed out that 30gp covers a typical person's living costs for a month, and this is for a day's work. Little does he know how comparatively generous that offer is in my game...**

**There are large treasure hoards out there, but they're long forgotten, or belong to nasties of unbelievable power. If the players find them, it will be a rare, and no doubt joyous event, and it will make them stand out (for good and ill) in the campaign world.

 

[Scorpio616]

Would a king really let a Vorpal Greatsword or a Sphere of Annihilation in the hands of an adventurer if he knew about it?

I doubt ruling class would even permit thing like Crowns of Charisma, Rings of Human influence and Rods of Rulership to be in any hands but their own. Chances are a Vorpal Sword* has a few countries claiming it to be theirs, likely emblazoned on their coats of arms, and they will be more than willing to throw wave after wave of their own conscripts at it's holder to get it back.

Granted, I suspect that most DMs do not go down this rabbit hole that far. Kind of like the fact that in a super hero genre game, the superheroes are not arrested on sight for having dangerous and deadly powers.

That is actually quite conceivable in a Marvel setting actually, Mutant Registration Act and what not.

*If Vorpal is like the Balor's sword's ability, it's just extra damage on a crit now.

 

[mcbobbo]

Of course there are magic shops selling items to PCs. We see that in the PHB by way of materials, focuses, and minor potions. But that's a far cry from knowing for certain that a given shop has a given item to the point that your character has immunity from disadvantages.

Excluded middle, I think.

 

[KarinsDad]

I doubt ruling class would even permit thing like Crowns of Charisma, Rings of Human influence and Rods of Rulership to be in any hands but their own. Chances are a Vorpal Sword* has a few countries claiming it to be theirs, likely emblazoned on their coats of arms, and they will be more than willing to throw wave after wave of their own conscripts at it's holder to get it back.

My thoughts exactly.

That is actually quite conceivable in a Marvel setting actually, Mutant Registration Act and what not.

I always found that to be a dumb idea. It wouldn't be the Mutant Registration Act, it would be the MetaCreature Registration Act.

(not MetaHuman since not all metas are human)

Avengers, Fantastic Four, everyone would have to sign up.

One doesn't put a ban on conventional weapons, but not put a ban on chemical weapons.

All metas have the potential to be dangerous, so all metas would have to register with the Feds.

 

[KarinsDad]

Of course there are magic shops selling items to PCs. We see that in the PHB by way of materials, focuses, and minor potions. But that's a far cry from knowing for certain that a given shop has a given item to the point that your character has immunity from disadvantages.

Excluded middle, I think.

It's all where a given DM decides to draw the line.

I would think that the odds of finding an uncommon or rare item in a shop would be, well, uncommon or rare.

The odds of finding a common item, common.

 

[rkwoodard]

That entirely depends on the economy of the campaign. I don't picture there being such an economy in Middle Earth, for example (perhaps there was, but it's not how I picture it). If magic items are expensive/rare enough that only rulers can afford them (and, for example, adventurers, if very lucky, might find long-lost swords belonging to long-dead kings), then where's the scope for a black market. To go back to one of your example, if MTG cards cost hundreds of thousands of pounds each, then there wouldn't be FLGS with cases full of them. Of course, most D&D campaigns do have magic items much more common than this, but it isn't a given.

It absolutely depends on the campaign. Agreed 100%. Lets take Middle Earth as that is a great example of a world that doesnot have a "Magic Economy".
But, Tolkien has to get magic items into the hands of the characaters. How does he do it:

1) Loot, Bilbo gets all of his items from Trolls, and riddle contest, and treasure from the mountain. The hobbits get some swords from the burrow-wights.
2) Inheritance. Frodo gets Sting and the mithral armor from his dear old uncle who knows he is going on a big quest.
3) Gifts. The elves of Lothlorian gift theFellowship with what they consider magic items (lets please not have to argue over if they were real magic or just exceptional elven stuff).
So, no, it would not be appropriate to have a seller of magic items in Rivendell or Gondor, but there were multiple ways to get magic items into the hands of the characters.

If it is loot or nothing, it does not make a lot of sense(in most settings) and it also makes it very stilted….which is also an undesired effect as stated by the OP.

RK