Planescape The Great Wheel, the World Axis, and the Abyss

[Storyteller Hero]

Right. What I'm saying is if I use that, then there's no CE outer plane. So I'm trying to figure out a reconciliation; either there's a different CE outer plane separate from the abyss, or the abyss is an outer plane that plunges through reality and bores through the elemental chaos (meaning it's a quick but dangerous connection between the astral and the elemental).

You're assuming that the Abyss came into being after the arrangement of planes in aligned structure instead of before.

It's more likely the other way around IF going by the clues in official lore across editions.

 

[dave2008]

You're assuming that the Abyss came into being after the arrangement of planes in aligned structure instead of before.

It's more likely the other way around IF going by the clues in official lore across editions.

They mentioned the 4e lore which has the abyss being created later.

 

[Voadam]

If you want the Great Wheel I would treat the specific Great Wheel outer planes as elemental planes of alignment and being all there from the beginning and not coming and going so a full CE Abyss from the beginning.

Classic Planescape/Great Wheel cosmology has current Tanari demons coming in at some point in the past and taking over the Abyss from non-Tanari prior demons and Obyrith CE outsiders.

Shard of Evil into the Elemental Chaos turning a portion of the Chaos into CE planar area and corrupting elementals and primordials into new Demons and Demon Lords in the past who are now the demons in charge of the CE Abyss works fine, the only hole to be narratively filled in being how did they get from the Chaos to the outer plane Abyss. As I mentioned before, Tanari Demon Lords piloting a calved off portion of the Chaos and using it to invade the Astral Sea en masse and take over the CE plane is the way I would go. It also could tie into Blood War as the Devils want to cut off the demons from invading and taking over more stuff.

 

[Larnievc]

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So, the question is then, what was the Abyss before the shard of evil was planted in it, boring a hole through reality? The abyss could both be accessible from the astral sea (getting you to the Plane of Infinite Portals), and also be a conduit that bores to and through the elemental chaos. It could have been the home of the Oberyths, the plane of madness.

I once did a whole campaign based around Obyriths. They came from a universe before the current one and had drained that one of all life. They made the Shard as a last ditch attempt to conquer the current universe. They sent it to Tharizdun wanting him to set it in the Astral plane. But it drove him bonkers and he cast it into the various prime planes or the Elemental Chaos which it warped with it's inherent evil and created the Abyss in which the Obyriths jumped to as a last resort because their universe was dead.

They created the Tanari and some Devils were corrupted and over time the more modern demons overthrew the Obyriths. That's the basics.

 

[Storyteller Hero]

They mentioned the 4e lore which has the abyss being created later.

The 4e lore has the cosmos existing before the Abyss, but not necessarily the multiverse in its current form.

 

[Cheesegreetings]

The reconciliation I use in my personal cosmology is to treat the Elemental Chaos as a planar pathway. The World Tree was a planar pathway, then there was some catastrophe (the Spellplague) that destroyed it and cause this messy jumble of elements, energies, and chaos to stretch between the Inner Planes at one end, and Limbo and the Abyss at the other. The Great Wheel has always been there. The Elemental Chaos, if anything, is the rift in reality.

 

[Quickleaf]

Hi y'all. For ages, I've been running games in my own setting, but I've been drawn back to core D&D due to getting a hold of the 2E Planescape books. But, I really liked some of the 4E World Axis changes as well (like Angels serve all gods, not just good ones). But, I also love all the lore from Planescape, so I'm playing with some blending of the two.

One problem that I run into is what to do with the Abyss. I like the Great Wheel and want to keep the 16 aligned outer planes as planes accessible from the Astral Sea, but I do like the notion of demons as corrupted elementals and the Abyss being a wound in the Elemental Chaos.

So, the question is then, what was the Abyss before the shard of evil was planted in it, boring a hole through reality? The abyss could both be accessible from the astral sea (getting you to the Plane of Infinite Portals), and also be a conduit that bores to and through the elemental chaos. It could have been the home of the Oberyths, the plane of madness.

Or, I could replace the Abyss as an outer plane with something else.

Maybe the "Abyss" was once the transitive plane connecting the Outer Planes (realm of belief) to the Inner Planes (realm of raw matter)?