The Heretic of Wyre - Part II

[Enkhidu]

I think Graz'zt is being a real jerk.

You can't logically object to celestials being active on the prime if you are in the habit of sending demons there (Cerothumulos and associates). If you send a succubus to seduce a paladin who thwarted you in the past, you shouldn't complain if the succubus never returns. If you assassinate the Prelate of Morne, you shouldn't whine if you lose one of your associates in the aftermath (Rurunoth). You can't logically object to mortals summoning celestials if you have a witch of your own summoning demons left and right. Tit for tat. What's good for the goose and all that.

And why should Graz'zt object if Oronthon does some house-cleaning in his own Church? It's Oronthon's own worshippers that are getting blinded and feebleminded, blasted by lightning and slain by magic, not Graz'zt's. Does Oronthon intervene when Graz'zt punishes Lady Uzmi? No- it's an internal affair. Graz'zt should show similar discretion and common sense.

Of course, one would expect Oronthon to act with a good deal more wisdom and restraint than a demon prince. It seems clear that Oronthon tolerates Graz'zt's activities, perhaps because it is a growth experience for mortals to fight evil. Greater good, etc., etc.. Whatever. But I think that Graz'zt is getting awfully close to the borders of tolerable behavior. I think that Oronthon should seriously consider sending a strike team of Solars to give Graz'zt a lesson in humility.

p.s. Any word on Mostin's spells?

If I've got Sep's religious mythos right, Graz'zt is in actuality one of Oronthon's fallen celestials. If that's correct, it wouldn't be out of line to assume that, from his behavior, the reason for Graz'zt's fall was hubris (from the way he is being portrayed).

So, it seems sort of fitting for the demon prince; in fact I'd say that, by his very nature, Graz'zt would be incapable of any other behavior.

 

[Lazybones]

When this is all finished (and I sense we've got a ways to go yet), I want to be the first to download The Complete Chronicles of the Heretic of Wyre from Morrus's story hour hosting page, to reread the whole saga from the beginning. It's amazing that you are able to keep so many plot threads and characters together in such an intricate web. I have a tough enough time just keeping the personalities and capabilities of my little band of four straight (and I don't tackle the complex theo-political issues that you do).

Kudos etc.,
LB

 

[Krellic]

I wholeheartedly second that sentiment. The degree of individual rol-playing and the depth of the politicking of all sorts is pure joy to read.

So Mostin got stung for back rent, even paladins have a sense of humour!

 

[Rackhir]

by Lazybones

When this is all finished (and I sense we've got a ways to go yet), I want to be the first to download The Complete Chronicles of the Heretic of Wyre from Morrus's story hour hosting page, to reread the whole saga from the beginning.

I believe that Horacio is due that honor, due to his tireless efforts in bumping "Lady Despina's Virtue", without which we might not have the Heretic of Wyre to enjoy.

Just wanted to say as well, I do so enjoy the character interactions in the last two posts. Everyone has such interesting flaws and compusions.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Graz'zt does have a point.

Why are there Rules about entering the Prime at all? Presumably to prevent a war between Powers that could escalate to the point of accidentally annihilating mankind or Unmaking the world. Sort of like negotiating a peace treaty between warring nations that includes strict understandings on fishing rights.

Allowing a host of Celestials on the Prime appears to violate the spirit of the rules, even if it is within the letter of the law. It is the difference between a Soviet nuclear boomer docking in Havana and building missile bases in Cuba. One is an annoyance passing through, the other could be viewed as a provocation, even if both are legal.

Of course Graz'zt loves to push the limits of the Rules as well. He just lacks the cultivated aesthetic necessary to appreciate adherence to the letter of the law. The Rules are an annoyance that he will quickly forget if he did not fear the threat of retribution. I am sure many Devils are watching the situation carefully, smiling gleefully, and taking notes.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Ridley's Cohort,

My presumption is that the Rules are imposed by Oronthon. I also presume he has the Power to back them up. In an early post, Mostin mentions that Graz'zt is served by 6 Balors- and that there are at least "a hundred Seraphs, Thrones and Virtues in Oronthon’s host." Seraphim are the highest in the celestial hierarchy, so I would guess those would be Solars. Thrones I would guess are Planetars. Virtues are ghaele Eladrin, maybe? Anyway, they are all tougher than Balors. Graz'zt is probably a former Solar. Significant, but Oronthon's host could squash him (and the other demon lords) like bugs if they wished. And that's not including Oronthon's status as a (greater?) god. But Oronthon has his own inscrutable reasons for letting demons and devils continue to make mischief.

But if Graz'zt goes too far, he risks being locked up in someone's basement again.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

My presumption is that the Rules are imposed by Oronthon. I also presume he has the Power to back them up. In an early post, Mostin mentions that Graz'zt is served by 6 Balors- and that there are at least "a hundred Seraphs, Thrones and Virtues in Oronthon’s host."

According to Orthodoxy, the rules are set by Oronthon - the Temptation of Mortals being a valid aspect of demonic/diabolic existence. I have assigned no specific numbers to the celestial host - note that Mostin knows the names of a hundred Seraphs, etc. etc. The actual numbers are - at least according to Orthodoxy - colossal.

If one wants to proceed with the classical terminology, these equivalences can be drawn. Remember, all celestials may be LG in my campaign.

Seraphim = Advanced Solars of Great Power
Cherubim = Solars
Thrones = Planetars
Dominions = Ghaele Eladrin
Virtues= Trumpet Archons
Powers= Astral Devas
Principalities=Monadic Devas
Archangels=Movanic Devas
Angels=Avorals


There are no hound or lantern archons, firre eladrins or leonals in the campaign: they are inconsistent with the flavour I wanted to evoke.

Graz'zt is probably a former Solar

That is the basic premise. All Demon Princes and Archdevils were Seraphim or Cherubim (Solars). Demon Lords and Dukes of Hell are likely fallen Solars of lesser rank, or powerful fallen Planetars. The correspondances are not intended to be exact, but it should be borne in mind that the the most powerful Solars (e.g. Enitharmon) are more powerful than the most advanced Demon Princes (say, Graz'zt or Fraz'Urb'Luu) or Archdevils (say Baalzebul).

The Adversary, as mentioned before, is unique.

A heretical group known as the Irrenites regard him as an aspect of Oronthon, who fosters growth through overcoming adversity.

He is understood even by Orthodoxy to be second only to Oronthon in terms of power. Note that the Adversary is also not bound by the general rules which prohibit fiends from entering the Prime Plane without summoning or calling.

 

[tleilaxu]

here is to hoping you'll soon post again

 

[Horacio]

by Lazybones


I believe that Horacio is due that honor, due to his tireless efforts in bumping "Lady Despina's Virtue", without which we might not have the Heretic of Wyre to enjoy.

I'm blushing now

 

[Cheiromancer]

Sepulchrave,

If there are no Lantern Archons, what was Ortwin referring to in his conversation with Ruronoth:

Perhaps if you atone, like the succubus, you can find your way back up to your former heavenly abodes. You’ll get your harp back, nice new cloud to sit on. You’ll probably start off low: you know, a glowing ball of fuzzy light, but after a few eras, you might get a job as a trumpet-blower or, even better, in a celestial choir. Do you like singing, Ruru?

Rintrah tells Rehael not to "stir up the archons." Urthoon and Enitharmon are accompanied by "a phalanx of archons and devas." What does "archon" refer to- is it just the Trumpet Archons?

p.s (mostin's spells)