The Hoplite (think Spartan, Greek, Roman)

[Tyonisius]

The monkey grip my friend told me about merely lets you reduce the penalty for using a weapon one size category larger with only a -2 penalty. It does not let you use a 2 hander one handed but it does let you use a large 2 handed greatsword 2 handed with a -2 penalty.

Ah. I'm not sure I feel that the way we use Monkey Grip is any more broken than that way. The way we use it allows a 6 foot(ish) sword to be used in 1 hand by a medium sized creature, the way you described it would allow the same creature to wield a... 8... or 9 foot sword in two hands. Anyway, if you would like to use this class in one of your compaigns you can simply take out the prereq of monkey grip and have adaptive polearm allow them to use the weapon 1 handed with a -2 (or no) penalty as well as it's currently description.

Edit: You also might want to make it so the Hoplite gains light armor proficiency and proficiency with all shields. Personally, I think that if someone was going to multiclass into Hoplite they should plan for all that, hence the reason I didn't have the Hoplite gain those proficiencies.

 

[Meeki]

I think it's in complete warrior. You can ALWAYS use a weapon of one size category larger than yourself with a -4 penalty, monkey grip just reduces the penalty. Allowing for someone to use a 2 handed weapon in one hand with a -2 penalty is a bit different since you can't really use a 2 handed weapon in one hand, even small ones strangly enough.

As far as the bull rush goes I would have them choose a range either adjacent or the reach. Of course taking into account that if therea re enemies within 5 ft they may give cover to enemies 10 ft away. Anyways it would be a better balance, make more sense, and reduce paperwork.

 

[Tyonisius]

I think it's in complete warrior. You can ALWAYS use a weapon of one size category larger than yourself with a -4 penalty, monkey grip just reduces the penalty. Allowing for someone to use a 2 handed weapon in one hand with a -2 penalty is a bit different since you can't really use a 2 handed weapon in one hand, even small ones strangly enough.

As far as the bull rush goes I would have them choose a range either adjacent or the reach. Of course taking into account that if therea re enemies within 5 ft they may give cover to enemies 10 ft away. Anyways it would be a better balance, make more sense, and reduce paperwork.

So... a medium creature could wield a large Longsword with one hand using monkey grip and suffer a -2 penalty? According to the Arms and Equipment Guide this would increase the damage of the longsword from 1d8 to 2d6. So it would pretty much be the same (in the example of the greatsword anyway).

 

[s-dub]

Gouge should do less damage and allow for a heal check to stop bleeding (or magical healing applied, as usual)

A half orc barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Hoplight 8 could have:

18 (natural) + 2 race + 4 rage + 4 (bogs) + 3 (levels) = 31

add a crown of strength (or whatever that spell is that gives you 2 str and you can discharge for +8) and you'd have 35

So minimum he'd do 20 points of damage each round for 8 rounds unless a fort save against 28 (or higher), no way to remove.


And for ridiculous cheese!

Gestault half orc barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Hoplight 8/Frenzied B 1 = 14
Other side would be Cleric 14 with STR domain:

STR would be 18 + 2 (h orc) + 4 (rage) + 6 (frenzy) + 3 (levels) + 14 (cleric) = 47

Damage would be 36 per round for 8 rounds with a fort save of 35

 

[Tyonisius]

Gouge should do less damage and allow for a heal check to stop bleeding (or magical healing applied, as usual)

A half orc barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Hoplight 8 could have:

18 (natural) + 2 race + 4 rage + 4 (bogs) + 3 (levels) = 31

add a crown of strength (or whatever that spell is that gives you 2 str and you can discharge for +8) and you'd have 35

So minimum he'd do 20 points of damage each round for 8 rounds unless a fort save against 28 (or higher), no way to remove.


And for ridiculous cheese!

Gestault half orc barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Hoplight 8/Frenzied B 1 = 14
Other side would be Cleric 14 with STR domain:

STR would be 18 + 2 (h orc) + 4 (rage) + 6 (frenzy) + 3 (levels) + 14 (cleric) = 47

Damage would be 36 per round for 8 rounds with a fort save of 35

Implementing a way to stop the bleeding might be good, though. A heal check or using a healing spell that heals at least as much damage as the gouge does per round might work. A heal check of something like 15+HopliteLevels+Str Mod, maybe. As for a healing spell stopping it, I'd have to find a good way to word it. Something like the level of the healing spell that is needed to stop the bleeding is based upon the damage the gouge does each round. As for the amount of damage it can do, I don't have too many encounters that last more than a few rounds... haven't had many if any in any campaign I've played in.

As for your second example, first off, I don't do gestault and I don't think that gestault can every be considered "balanced".

With both of your examples you built a character around doing gouge, with a way to stop the bleeding, doing so would be a bad idea. So I'll think on this and try to find a good way to do that.

Thanks for the input about having some way to stop the bleeding.

Edit: On second glance over, it might be feasible to change the damage of Improved Gouge to 1.5xStr mod.

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

While I do like the idea of special abilities to throw javelins, the Hoplites did not imploy them as weapons from what I have researched. The Roman Hastati would throw pila before charging with their hasta but from what I've read, the Hoplites did not use a ranged weapon. In fact, during their use as infantry it was normal for either side of to have little or no ranged fighters or even calvary, though Calvary was sometimes used to protect the weak spot in the Phalanx. I think if I was going to make a Hastati class (which actually sounds really freaking cool) giving that class special abilities to throw multiple pila (which might be a bit difficult because pila were designed to bend after being used so that the enemy could not throw them back) or a regular javelin before charging in with their Hasta (or spear) would be a great idea.

And if you gave them Monkey Grip, would they be able to throw longspears as javelins? I once dated a girl from Rajasthan who claimed that ancient Rajathani warriors threw javelins of 3 meters in length.

Now I'm tempted to craft a class that specialises in javelins, spears, and wears heavy armour & tower shields. They'll be able to throw multiple medium-size javelins, single longspears, and wield the longspear one-handed. With reach of 10' and 5' as well. They’ll have some sort of improved set versus charge. Phalanx fighting, shield wall, et cetera. And maybe at very high levels, they can throw lightning bolts a la javelins of lightning (after a suitable invocation to Zeus/Jupiter/Indra/Thor, etc.)

 

[Tyonisius]

Now I'm tempted to craft a class that specialises in javelins, spears, and wears heavy armour & tower shields. They'll be able to throw multiple medium-size javelins, single longspears, and wield the longspear one-handed. With reach of 10' and 5' as well. They’ll have some sort of improved set versus charge. Phalanx fighting, shield wall, et cetera. And maybe at very high levels, they can throw lightning bolts a la javelins of lightning (after a suitable invocation to Zeus/Jupiter/Indra/Thor, etc.)

The Roman Hastati. Check them out. That is my next project once I have all the kinks worked out of the Hoplite.

 

[Meeki]

So... a medium creature could wield a large Longsword with one hand using monkey grip and suffer a -2 penalty? According to the Arms and Equipment Guide this would increase the damage of the longsword from 1d8 to 2d6. So it would pretty much be the same (in the example of the greatsword anyway).

Except its not the same, since it moves up a size category so a large longsword is 2 handed for a medium creature and reach weapons would be different. Also I just checked the SRD and its only -2 per size category difference between intended size of user and actual size of user for weilding inappropriate sized weapons. I wonder what the heck monkey grip does do then? Anyone have a 3.5 monkey grip definition?