The legal ramifications of Baleful Polymorph

[Kmart Kommando]

If they prepared the spell in advance, then using said spell is premeditated.

 

[sukael]

If they prepared the spell in advance, then using said spell is premeditated.

I would disagree. Loading one's pistol in advance does not necessarily imply that shooting someone else later in the day is premeditated; one may simply have a particularly pragmatic view of self-defense.

 

[sukael]

Man. These guys do it better than Hypersmurf!

Eh, I wouldn't say so. One of them doesn't even know that being unconscious makes you automatically count as 'willing' for spells

 

[Celebrim]

What if someone fails their 24-hour Will Save on the Baleful Polymorph, and takes on the mind of a rabbit for the duration of the spell? Is that on a par with Charm Person as far as stealing someone's free will goes?

Not so much. The thing that bother's people about compulsions, or to be more exacting the thing that I think would bother people about compulsions if they existed, is that a compulsion undermines people's ability to judge other people's character and to act in accordance with thier own character. Fraud and betrayal are in many was more frightening than merely being killed, or even being turned into a rabbit. Scariest of all is self-betrayal. Someone is turned into a rabbit, and that is an observable fact. His neighbor can say, "Joe has been turned into a rabbit, that's why he's eating grass." But then the neighbor goes out the next day and see's Bill eating grass, and Bill says to him, "Someone enchanted me so that I wanted to eat grass." That is not an observable fact. How can you tell whether someone is enchanted or whether or not someone just says they are enchanted? Let's up the stakes. Joe gets turned into a lion, and Joe's neighbor observes Joe in the form of a lion devouring his own daughter. That's tragic, but Joe's neighbor knows that Joe is only doing it because Joe has been turned into a wild animal. On the other hand, the neighbor observes Bill as Bill killing his daughter. Bill says, "Some one enchanted me and made me do this?"

From the perspective of Bill and Joe, both are equally horrible. But from the perspective of the neighbor, Joe is only untrustworthy when he is a lion. But Bill is now untrustworthy period, because how can you know? Joe, unless it can be shown he's a powerful wizard capable of changing into a lion, has a clear alibi. But what about Bill? All the evidence for the compulsion is probably gone by the time the experts show up to diagnosis the issue.

Your average mundane learns that someone with the potential to do either of these things is around, and his general feeling is not "How cool." or even "Meh."

And I think the the degree of violation you'd experience is different. The rabbit is being 'held' against its will, but its not being made to serve someone else's will. The rabbit still isn't a puppet. But someone that is being charmed and dominated is being violated in a way that exceeds any comparable experience.

In my campaign, if people learn you can cast 'charm person', they tend to look at you like you announced you were a child rapist.

Is using Eagle's Splendor to ramp up one's Diplomacy check considered equivalent to charm magics?

Good question. I've never really considered it. I guess because charisma enhancing objects were so rare in earlier editions that it never crossed my mind. My gut instinct is to say, "No.", but I can't really explain clearly why I think so yet. I think though that if you used an enchantment of any sort to commit fraud, say establishing a relationship based on false pretenses, that people would tend to see that as something more horrific than simple deceit - larceny magnified to its most horrific level. But, on the whole I think they'd see fraud as being less vile than compulsion.

 

[sukael]

Fraud and betrayal are in many was more frightening than merely being killed, or even being turned into a rabbit.

Seconded... particularly since in a D&D-verse, it's a pretty obvious-to-prove fact that if you're a good person and act right, your soul will end up on one of the nicer Outer Planes eventually.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

As for proving your soul ends up in X place, is it any more simple to do in D&D than on earth? Illusions, lies, and spells to evade magical discernment could be used. (Especially among the non-informed folk)

My gut tells me that Charisma enhancing is no more a crime than makeup and a good suit/robe/dress/etc. Diplomacy and such are not compulsions; The subject still has free will. However, using Eagle's Splendor to up your charisma to help lie in court to convince a jury might be a crime in addition to perjury.

What about magical alignment change? AKA Helm of Opposite Alignment, Atonement and such. If a mage turns a man from good to evil, is the mage responsible for the crimes the man commits? He contributed to it possibly, but he may not be any more guilty than a father who beats his son, and then his son becomes a mass murderer later in life. Then again, maybe not.

And what about the creation of undead? Mindless undead, like skeletons. Aside from desecrating a corpse, (almost a necessity of the spell) and the whole "negative energy brings badness mumbo-jumbo," (Which is a subject all its own) and barring a religious stigma, is creating a skeleton evil if it doesn't harm anyone? Is it any more dangerous than a gun or a sword?

 

[QuaziquestGM]

On the night vision thing.

under US case law, it is considered an invasion of privacy, constituting an unwarrented search, for law enforcement to observe someone with night vision equipment.

The important aspect is "expectation of privacy". It's dark. You don't expect to be seen.

This ruling was issued in a case involving police observing someone in a vehicle. I can't recall if it was drug related, sex related, or both. "In the privacy of a darkened vehicle" one isn't expecting the guy on the other side of the parking lot to be using a telescope with night vision.......

WITH a warrent, however, police can use nightvision or overfly a suspect's home with heat vision to check for suspicsious amounts of heat, say, indicating a "Grow room"...