D&D 5E The Magical Martial

[Micah Sweet]

Why not? Monks don't go around with big signs on their heads stating "I ONLY LOOK NORMAL! I ACTUALLY AM NOT NORMAL! DON'T BE CONFUSED!!"

Normal looking people doing crazy things is no different from weird looking people doing crazy things. Anyone in a fantasy setting choosing to judge based solely on appearances is an idiot.

If I saw a person punch through a steel plate, I would want to know how. As the player of a game where such things might happen, I would still like to know how. The description of the monk class in the PH provides such an explanation, so that's fine. The description of the fighter class does not.

 

[Chaosmancer]

And let's go back to the ghost. We can check this simple Magic Alertness test: place ghost in antimagic field. The ghost continues to exist.

But this is... a bad test.

For example, let's look at Crawford's requirements for something being affected by Anti-Magic

• Is it a magic item?
• Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description?
• Is it a spell attack?
• Is it fueled by the use of spell slots?
• Does its description say it’s magical?

If your answer to any of those questions is yes, the feature is magical.

Now, let us look at the Monk level 6 ability: Starting at 6th level, your unarmed strikes count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

This is not a magical item. This is not a spell. It is not a spell attack. It isn't fueled by spell slots. And the description doesn't say it is magical. So A Monk's fists count as magical even in an anti-magic field, because it doesn't say that they are magical, they just count as magical. And Ki isn't magic... unless it is. Because the description of Ki says it is a magical force in all living bodies, but a monk's unarmored movement and martial arts abilities, despite being powered by ki, are not canceled by anti-magic. Unless they are casting a spell using Ki. But not if they are teleporting without a spell.

Seriously, anti-magic is the single worst feature in the entire game. It is the ONLY reason these things become this convoluted.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't dislike the sentence. First off, I was explaining what OTHER PEOPLE would argue, nothing to do with what I think.

Secondly, I just think it is pointlessly unnecessary. Every crafting technique the smith could use might be supernatural. The very act of singing while you hammer the steel might be supernatural. I don't feel the need to point out "this smith is normal, this one is supernatural, this one is normal but really skilled, this one is supernatural but only on tuesdays" it isn't serving any purpose for me. It is just wasted effort so that people can pretend a fantasy world is just like Europe in 1415.

I do feel that need. It is serving the purpose for me of making sense of the fantasy.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You keep wanting us to change or do things because it is what you want. I'm simply pointing out that the designers and most players disagree with you.



So... nowhere. Nowhere in the text does it say Beowulf has supernatural or extraordinary abilities. You are just saying he does, because he is doing things a normal human cannot do....

Great! That's wonderful actually.

So fighter's are supernatural (or Extraordinary) because they can swim in full plate without penalty. Which a normal human cannot do. Unless you are going to demand a double standard?

I'm not, but I stand by disliking that rule because it breaks with reality in a way that is unacceptable to me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would question where the heck a portal came from! After stepping through an impossible gateway to another world, and seeing people bounding two stories into the air, the next thing I would do is try and jump and see if I could do the same.

If I couldn't... clearly these people on the other side of this impossible portal in a land that isn't Earth... aren't like me!

Yes. They clearly have extraordinary or supernatural jumping abilities.

 

[Minigiant]

Then I submit that making martials supernatural is most likely not going to solve your problem. Making them stronger or able to jump higher or throw boulders or whatever doesn’t solve the problem you have with the 20ft tall demon and a fighter wielding a dagger.

That was never my problem.

I'll say it simpler.

1. The D&D Designers and a large chunk of the community demanded that the base fighter be simple as a rock and the rogue be only slightly more complex
2. A consequence of this is that against Tier 3 and Tier 4 monsters, the base fighter and the base rogue must become supernatural in order to deal with Tier 3obstacles and monsters
3. The only way to return the fighter and rogue to mudane world is either:
   1. Change the base rules to make supernatural acts on Earth be mundane in D&D
   2. Add additional rules to explain the abstractions of combat, exploraton, and social play past level 10.

OR
You want Big Dumb Fighter
Well Big Dumb Fighter has to be supernatural after it hits a certain level.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Does it? He was stronger than other men, but does that mean he was supernatural? The story is just like "Beowulf was incredibly strong!" They didn't need any explanation for it. That was just how he was.



Most greek heroes DIDN'T have extraordinary strength, and sure, their heroes had god blood. So did their kings. So did their politicians. So did a lot of people. The constantly had people who claimed lineage with great heroes, who had lineage with the gods, so that they could have lineage with the gods. Why? Because it gave them authority. Anyone important had god blood, because if they didn't have god blood or a god's blessing... they wouldn't be important.

God blood is also an excellent explanation for the superhuman abilities many of them had.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Not in many people’s d&d. Fiction trumps rules.

So the rules define the world only when it is convenient for you that they define the world? I reject that. You can't demand that we must use the rules to define whether or not something can be allowed to be magic or not, then take something that breaks your preferred version of the world and say it doesn't count.

That’s not true. He has the same str stat, he cannot carry nearly as much.

That is true. Gorilla's are represented by the Ape Statblock. Apes are medium creatures and they do not have the Powerful Build ability. They can carry the exact same amount. Or is this another instance of the rules not counting because you don't like them?

in many campaigns this isn’t true. Fiction trumps rules.

So, DnD looks like the real world, because at every turn where it doesn't... you get to declare it does because that's the way you like it? People break or ignore the rules, so they can't show us that you are wrong about the world of DnD?

 

[Micah Sweet]

true of course, but that is tangential to if those hypothetical abilities are considered extraordinary or supernatural/magical by the standards of the world was my point.

The standards of the fantasy world was never my point, just the standards of our world.

 

[Cadence]

God blood is also an excellent explanation for the superhuman abilities many of them had.

If Disney and the comics have taught us anything, it's that being an orphan helps (bat powers, spider powers, cold powers, glass slipper powers...). Going big and losing your entire planet can make you downright super.