The one responsible for defense.

[Xini]

Okay so our group at the moment consists of the following :-
Dwarven Cleric of Haela Brightaxe (not sure on the spelling there)
~Good with his greatsword and the only melee character at present.
Elven Cleric/ Urban Ranger of Corellon Larathien
~Mainly an archer. Can do melee but prefers to shoot from range.
Elven Wizard
~Weak in melee (obviously) but fairly good with a bow.
Human Illusionist/ Rogue.
~Extremely weak in melee and dubious at range. More of a swiss army knife.

I was previously playing an Elven fighter with a greatsword going into fighter/ wizard later with the plan of becoming an Eldritch Knight and an Abjurant Champion. I fell after being swarmed by wolves, goblins and a vampire. This was after yoyoing for a long while between the floor and being standing.

We are going through healing like you wouldn't believe. Considering that we have two clerics we have used up I think in the region of four or five wands of cure light wounds and we're only just tipping fourth level!

Anyhow I need to come up with a strong character design to aid this group. I'd like to make a pretty much straight fighter with style but we are limited to the core classes minus Druid, Barbarian and Monk.

My first thought is a dwarven fighter (straight 20 levels), dwarven battle plate, dwarven waraxe and a heavy shield. Using the feats to augment my basic attacks and my defence, hopefully moving towards adamantine plate and the feat which should combine to give me DR 5/- at fairly high level. However there is a few problems. Firstly I can't seem to get enough feats to do all that I want to, the campaign is fairly investigation orientated with plenty of dungeon crawls (shackled city, though please no spoilers), we are limited to 28 point buy on stats, I have only 3,000gp to equip this fourth level fighter (the DM said I should come in at 4th or I'd just die again).

If you guys can think of some ideas that'd be great. I want to stick to a fairly straight design (I've hit AC99 with a previous character so I've done the munchkin thing and now I want to do something more mundane than that wizard/ fighter/ bladesinger) and the DM would probably frown heavily on any uber AC scores or such.

Basically I want to be able to take on large numbers of opponents effectively. I don't want to have to rely on backup for healing too much (I figure a stout but not ridiculous AC will cover this) or for taking out my opponents. As the only other melee combatant is a cleric (and he's the only one of the two who is overly concerned with healing) I would like to be able to hold back as many opponents as possible whilst being a significant enough threat that I both don't get bored nor do the baddies ignore me and go for the "real" threats in the back line.

So has anyone got any ideas?

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'm stunned that you could use up 200 charges of CLW wands (that on top of any healing from spontaneously converted spells) in the first two modules of Shackled City (starting when you can afford wands, so I guess mainly just the second module)? I don't even remember that many significant encounters.

Trust me, you don't need AC 99 to play Shackled City. My Archivist with AC 26 was considered insane and very hard to hit at that level except by main end enemies.

 

[Xini]

I'm stunned that you could use up 200 charges of CLW wands (that on top of any healing from spontaneously converted spells) in the first two modules of Shackled City (starting when you can afford wands, so I guess mainly just the second module)? I don't even remember that many significant encounters.

I'm not sure that the DM is running this as per the book. Some of these encounters are very hard.

Trust me, you don't need AC 99 to play Shackled City. My Archivist with AC 26 was considered insane and very hard to hit at that level except by main end enemies.

Oh the AC99 was far beyond this level. I think it was 32nd level.

At level 4 I would expect to break 20 but not by much. Certainly not AC26. I think the character would get banned!

 

[hanniball]

Are you allowed to take any prestige classes? If so, I'd suggest Dwarven Defender wielding a spiked chain for more battlefield control while in your defensive stance. Grabbing combat expertise can further augment your AC and Improved Trip can help ensure that your opponents stay within your reach and away from your feeble companions.

A brief, core-only build suggestion:

Dwarven Ranger 3/Fighter 4/Dwarven Defender 10/Horizon Walker 3

Feats: Track (Rgr 1), Exotic Weapon Prof: Spiked Chain (1), Two-Weapon Fighting (Rgr 2), Endurance (Rgr 3), Toughness (3), Dodge (ftr 1), Combat Expertise (ftr 2), Improved Trip (6), Power Attack (ftr 4), Weapon Focus: Spiked Chain (9), Weapon Specialization: Spiked Chain (12), Improved Critical: Spiked Chain (15), Improved Initiative (18)

From you post I can see that you're only allowed core classes (minus a few), but are your feat/prc selections restricted to core as well?

 

[Arkhandus]

With that kinda composition, the DM is quite obviously out to maul your PCs and just keep you all following along for maximum sufferage before he finally looses the TPK bomb.....

Seriously, with that much healing being expended in so few levels, in a 4-person group that is half clerics, your DM is out to get you all. And does not intend for you to ever complete the adventure unless it is at the end of a grueling 5-year struggle involving the repeated death and replacement of the entire party, all concluding the adventure with about 5 copper pieces and barely 4 loin cloths left between them by the very end. Then they'll die of starvation and chill before any rescue party can reach them in the finally-cleared-out villain's den.

But I dunno much 'bout Shackled City, so maybe you'll all get ripped apart even sooner. -_-

Of course your DM will frown on any high-AC characters and try to gank them sooner than normal; he wants you all to suffer and struggle miserably, like half-a-hit-die kobolds vying for scraps from their cackling yuan-ti overlords!

If not for the harsh restrictions he's imposing, I'd suggest you make a dwarven Dragon Shaman with max Con and max Cha, focused on being the party's lifeboat and damage-soaker; everyone would at least be healed a bit for free during combat, and restored to half max HP +1 or so after each fight (technically the Vigor aura functions as long as the subject is at or below half max HP, so at half HP it'll still heal them one more time before it goes quiescent).

Hrrm. Go for an 18-Strength human fighter with spiked chain and full trippy/disarmy/cleavy goodness, mayhap. Dunno what kinda critters you've faced, so I dunno if disarming or tripping are particularly useful tactics (no humanoids would mean little opportunity for disarming, while a bunch of quadrupeds or vermin would mean little chance of tripping). Lessee..... 17 Str base, up to 18 from the 4th-level ability increase, and 13 Int (there's 18 points spent; put the last 10 into a 14 Con, a 10 Dex, and a 10 Wis; focus on Str later for better attack, damage, and power-attack/combat expertise bonuses). Suit up in full plate and be the walking tank of super-trippy Hits McGee the Tripster from Tripsville, Tripsylvania.

Feats: EWP (Spiked Chain), C. Expertise, Imp. Trip, P. Attack, Cleave, and Great Cleave. Proceed to trip everything and anything like nobody's business, following up with normal attacks against the prone targets, and when they die cleave on through to the next foe. Trip with AoOs, then hit 'em while their down and cleave to the next poor sap. Oh, and technically, you'll get a cleave attack every time you drop a foe; so tripping them will give you a free cleave.

At 6th-level fighter, take Improved Disarm (maybe, if you face lotsa armed opposition) and either Improved Initiative or Iron Will (depending on whether or not you expect to be ganked by a caster, instead of a half-dragon vampiric frost giant of legend that the DM sends to take out his frustrations at your trippy-ness). Then go for the usual Weapon Focus/Spec/etc. chain after that, along with Imp. Crit and maybe, just maybe, some archery feats ('cept those with a Dex prerequisite of course) for when you have to rely on shootin' a beastie instead of wailin' on it up-close and personal-like.

Always use the chain as a reach weapon for maximum AoO-wnage and tripping. Unfortunately, you can't get any use out of Combat Reflexes unless you wanna sacrifice some Strength for a 14 Dex and 14 Int or something. Of course, even if you do go that route at the start, you'll have to give up a feat like Great Cleave until reaching 6th-level. Mounted combat feats would likely be a waste since you can barely keep your group alive un the killer DM, let alone some horse with lower HP and AC than yourself.

The DM obviously wants you all dead and making a third cleric for the group won't save ya, so you may as well try having fun with it by knocking every baddie on his arse while beating 'em bloody and cackling, in a whirling frenzy of trips and chain-lashings against everything in reach. Your PC is probably doomed anyway. :\

 

[Xini]

Are you allowed to take any prestige classes? If so, I'd suggest Dwarven Defender wielding a spiked chain for more battlefield control while in your defensive stance. Grabbing combat expertise can further augment your AC and Improved Trip can help ensure that your opponents stay within your reach and away from your feeble companions.

A brief, core-only build suggestion:

Dwarven Ranger 3/Fighter 4/Dwarven Defender 10/Horizon Walker 3

Feats: Track (Rgr 1), Exotic Weapon Prof: Spiked Chain (1), Two-Weapon Fighting (Rgr 2), Endurance (Rgr 3), Toughness (3), Dodge (ftr 1), Combat Expertise (ftr 2), Improved Trip (6), Power Attack (ftr 4), Weapon Focus: Spiked Chain (9), Weapon Specialization: Spiked Chain (12), Improved Critical: Spiked Chain (15), Improved Initiative (18)

From you post I can see that you're only allowed core classes (minus a few), but are your feat/prc selections restricted to core as well?

We are restricted in prestige classes as well. I'm not sure that horizon walker or the dwarven defender are on it. Btw, why horizon walker?

What I was thinking of (and the reason I'm thinking of straight twenty levels of fighter) is heavy armour optimisation, improved shieldiness (inc. shield ward to imporve an otherwise horrific touch AC), weapon focus/ spec/ mastery etc, improved crit.

I tried the improved disarm with the previous character and it does work very well but it also relies on someone else doing the hitting otherwise your just causing a mexican standoff untill they run out of weapons! I'm thinking of leaving out all those screwy feats like power attack and combat expertise so that firstly I'm not tempted to make myself miss with minuses and secondly because combat expertise would require me to spend more in intelligence than I was planning on doing (only 28 points to create the melee machine we need so desperately).

The spiked chain is something which I want to experiment with at some point but I'm thinking that I'm going to really need that shield and as such two handed weapons would be my bane!

In regard to weapons I was thinking of keeping in classic dwarven style and making supreme use of the first level ability of Dwarven fighter and using only axes. Handaxes, throwing axes, war axes etc etc etc. Oh and of course it gives plenty of excuses to yell "Nyr Doch!!"

The only thing which worries me with thins concept is that unlike those who multiclass to Waterdeep and back my saves will be pretty poor. I think that aside from this my to hit should be about 3 above norm and my AC should be similarly above what is normal for a heavily armoured low dex fighter.

 

[Xini]

With that kinda composition, the DM is quite obviously out to maul your PCs and just keep you all following along for maximum sufferage before he finally looses the TPK bomb.....
.........................

The DM obviously wants you all dead and making a third cleric for the group won't save ya, so you may as well try having fun with it by knocking every baddie on his arse while beating 'em bloody and cackling, in a whirling frenzy of trips and chain-lashings against everything in reach. Your PC is probably doomed anyway. :\

LOL!

I'm sure SHE would be mortified at those words She's actually trying to keep the players interested by pushing them (I think). The only problem is that instead of pushing back we seem to crumple like a cheap cardboard box in rain being sat on by a linebacker!

I can see that the spiked chain is much revered around here. I can't say it's ever taken me particularly as it's not really a real world weapon. I must admit thought that the tactics you guys are presenting. Very efficient.

 

[hanniball]

We are restricted in prestige classes as well. I'm not sure that horizon walker or the dwarven defender are on it. Btw, why horizon walker?

Well, you can easily meet the requirements with just a few skill points, the HW's 4+Int skills is obviously better than Fighter and DwD, and the 'Underground' terrain mastery doubles the range of your Darkvision. Not to mention the Desert terrain makes you immune to fatigue, which may offset the penalties from your Defensive Stance ending.

In regard to weapons I was thinking of keeping in classic dwarven style and making supreme use of the first level ability of Dwarven fighter and using only axes. Handaxes, throwing axes, war axes etc etc etc. Oh and of course it gives plenty of excuses to yell "Nyr Doch!!"

The only thing which worries me with thins concept is that unlike those who multiclass to Waterdeep and back my saves will be pretty poor. I think that aside from this my to hit should be about 3 above norm and my AC should be similarly above what is normal for a heavily armoured low dex fighter.

Since it appears Races of Stone is allowed, I'd strongly recommend the Deepwarden Prc for just about any Dwarven tank archetype (assuming it's allowed of course). It's the quintessential Dwarven tank Prc netting you a D12 hit die, 6+int skill points, two good saves, full BAB, and Con to AC at 2nd level. Definitely push for it.

I'd also suggest the Dwarf Paragon class for some additional Darkvision range, saving throw boosts, and +2 Con.

Honestly, it's fairly difficult to make viable suggestions without knowing exactly what's available to you.

Either way...just my 2 cp

 

[Xini]

Well, you can easily meet the requirements with just a few skill points, the HW's 4+Int skills is obviously better than Fighter and DwD, and the 'Underground' terrain mastery doubles the range of your Darkvision. Not to mention the Desert terrain makes you immune to fatigue, which may offset the penalties from your Defensive Stance ending.

Since it appears Races of Stone is allowed, I'd strongly recommend the Deepwarden Prc for just about any Dwarven tank archetype (assuming it's allowed of course). It's the quintessential Dwarven tank Prc netting you a D12 hit die, 6+int skill points, two good saves, full BAB, and Con to AC at 2nd level. Definitely push for it.

I'd also suggest the Dwarf Paragon class for some additional Darkvision range, saving throw boosts, and +2 Con.

Honestly, it's fairly difficult to make viable suggestions without knowing exactly what's available to you.

Either way...just my 2 cp

Yeah sorry about that. There is a list somewhere but it's not to hand at the moment.

The deepwarden idea had occured to me. I'm not sure the DM would go for it and allow it though. I think the idea of a CON bonus to AC not limited by the armour may make her shriek! I'm not even convinced that she'll allow the feats which increase the armour bonus or those which increase and then expand the shield bonus either.

The reasoning for all this clamping down is really that we started a few years ago we played a very limited campaign under a different DM so when she started she allowed pretty much everything and then 50% on top of that. It lead to the 99AC and other such abusive amounts of power. We tried to limit it slightly more in the next one but still ended up with very epic characters. As she saw this written campaign as designed for core D&D she's trying to limit us to the essentials and not let anyone get carried away. It is making for more challenging fights which is cool but it's also leading to a very fragile group and I want to rectify this with this new fighter whilst sticking to her concepts.

I apologise to anyone who feels I'm merely batting away their ideas. I really wanted to just open up some discussion on what a fighter can do and I am considering all that gets suggested I'm just trying to be careful not to undermine what our DM has as a "theme" for the power levels of this campaign. She shrieked enough when I was disarming with a two handed weapon and improved disarm

Nice points on the horizon walker though. I really hadn't considered that one. Thanks.

 

[DevlinStormweaver]

Im playing the wizard in teh campaign - and to make a point in teh previosu fights i had to run around and get fallen members up from the floor by using potions because the clerics ignored them.

As a group we do not fight together and that is why Xini is trying to make acharacter who can stand alone and not fall. I hope to be able to use his character as a pin which holds the group together in combat.