The Paladin killed someone...what to do?

[ForceUser]

It is a paladin's duty to smite down evil. It is NOT his duty to redeem all evil, although if evil can be redeemed then then would be even better. I fail to see how destroying an obvious accomplice to assault against a pregnant lady violates the paladin's code.

A paladin has a duty to uphold the law. Furthermore, evil's most dangerous lure is the abandonment of mercy. If, in his rage and grief at the assault upon his wife, the paladin struck down the halfling accomplice, he might not be acting within the dictates of society's law, which might require the murderers to answer for their crimes at court. Worse, he would be killing not out of righteousness but in a fit of rage. Great drama and a very human reaction, certainly, but not very paladin-like.

Walking the exalted path is no easy thing, and this is just the sort of extreme situation that tests a paladin's resolve to remain loyal to the ideals of justice, law, and virtue. It is a heart-wrenching situation, and my sympathies go out to any paladin forced to choose between upholding his ideals and avenging his wife. Either way, the character will struggle with guilt, sorrow, and grief. It's high drama.

 

[jdrakeh]

A paladin has a duty to uphold the law. Furthermore, evil's most dangerous lure is the abandonment of mercy. If, in his rage and grief at the assault upon his wife, the paladin struck down the halfling accomplice, he might not be acting within the dictates of society's law, which might require the murderers to answer for their crimes at court. Worse, he would be killing not out of righteousness but in a fit of rage. Great drama and a very human reaction, certainly, but not very paladin-like.

That's pretty much what I was getting at, but you said it much more eloquently.

 

[tonym]

Sounds to me like the paladin's player is roleplaying love and passion for his wife. No penalty would come from me for that.

It sounds like you wanted the following response:

PALADIN: "Oh, my wife has been assaulted? (stifles yawn) Okay, you are in trouble. Participating in an assault is a crime. I'm taking you to the city jail."

What's the fun in that?

I'd go the opposite route. I'd make the paladin glow with holy light, giving him 20 extra hit points and +3 to hit and damage until his wife is rescued. You don't mess with a paladin's family in my world. And if you do, the gods will be on the paladin's side, not cackle with glee over the opportunity to screw him over in his moment of anxiety.

My 2 cp.

Tony M

 

[Bagpuss]

Personally if I was playing that character, I'ld accept to losing my paladin abilities in then to go on a vengeful rampage against the fiends that attack my pregnant wife. After which I would ethier attempt to atone or go Blackguard depending on what the DM would allow and what suited the character better. Great opportunity to roleplay if you ask me.

 

[ForceUser]

Personally if I was playing that character, I'ld accept to losing my paladin abilities in then to go on a vengeful rampage against the fiends that attack my pregnant wife. After which I would ethier attempt to atone or go Blackguard depending on what the DM would allow and what suited the character better. Great opportunity to roleplay if you ask me.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

The padadin will need to atone, in my opinion. A paladin must act honorably. Killing even a criminal in cold blood when there was no immediate threat from him isn't honorable. A paladin is lawful as well as good and respects legitamate lawful authority. He had a criminal 'in custody' in a city where he apparently maintains a residence (so if he doesn't respect the civil authority there we have a different problem) and he chooses to kill him out of hand rather than turn him over to the authorities. And while I like a good revenge fantasy as much as the next guy, killing the guy who acted as a distraction may or may not be justice, depending on the law.

Since you have the game on hold, I would suggest talking to the player, and ask for clarification on if he is trying to kill the guy. Make it clear that killing a helpless target in a situation where he can be dealt with by city authorities would be a violation of his code, and if he wants to do that and deal with the consequences thats fine, but if he didn't think of it that way give him a chance to subdual the guy's head into a wall and go from there.

 

[Andor]

The answer to this actually hinges enteirely on information we don't have.

What are the Paladins legal powers in this setting? Is he a full knight with the High Justice and the Low? An agent of the Church? If so the simple fact that this is an assault on his wife could make this a church matter and once again within his perview. Is he in his own country or a foreign one and which set of laws is primary? Modern jurisdictional disputes are childs play compared to the kind of stuff that crops up under the feudal system.

What does the relevant legal system say is the appropriate punishment for accessory to assault? What are the guidelines the Paladins order has for dealing with evil prisoners when you can't afford to be slowed down by them?

It's not at all clear yet if the paladin has actually done something wrong.

In any event mechanically I'd say the worst punishment would be to count it as a chaotic act and allow atonement.

RPwise there are a thousand things you can do. Legal battles. An investigation by his order. Holy dreams of warning. Evil dreams of temptation into the dark side...

Under no circumstances would I count that single act as evil and revoke his paladinhood however.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Sounds to me like the paladin's player is roleplaying love and passion for his wife. No penalty would come from me for that.

It sounds like you wanted the following response:

PALADIN: "Oh, my wife has been assaulted? (stifles yawn) Okay, you are in trouble. Participating in an assault is a crime. I'm taking you to the city jail."

What's the fun in that?

I'd go the opposite route. I'd make the paladin glow with holy light, giving him 20 extra hit points and +3 to hit and damage until his wife is rescued. You don't mess with a paladin's family in my world. And if you do, the gods will be on the paladin's side, not cackle with glee over the opportunity to screw him over in his moment of anxiety.

My 2 cp.

Tony M

wow, I had no idea that clinging to your code even in a moment of personal anguish was the equivelent of yawning at your wife's pain. Or that paladin's got to turn into vengful vigilante's whenever they want.

What did Vimes say in Night Watch? Something like "Yes, I am hurting, but I'm still doing my job. And I'll make sure you get a private cell and a fair trial and when you go to the hangsman a tight knot that won't slip and leave you to suffer and choke." Yeah, holding to what you believe in even when its personal or painful sure is boring. :\

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If Paladin's run willy-nilly around the law whenever it suits them, it makes them criminals (specifically vigilantes).

... which has nothing at all to do with whether or not they are Lawful, Good, or still a Paladin.

People really need to get "Lawful = Legal" out of their heads.

 

[jdrakeh]

... which has nothing at all to do with whether or not they are Lawful, Good, or still a Paladin.

As others in this thread have pointed out, depending upon the setting, this may have a lot to do with whether a Paladin is Lawful.

“Law” implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability.

If the setting has laws that govern the punsihment of criminals and a Paladin does an end run around those laws to take matters into his own hands, he's not obeying authority.