frankthedm
First Post
That Halfling just took part in a murder attempt on the paladin's family. Death is a fair punishment for the halfling.
The Paladin killed someone...what to do?
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
Ok, first of all, any DM that puts the paladin in this position and then afterwards has to come wringing his hands for advice, isn't doing his job. What the hell did you expect to happen?
Now for paladin players, here's a safe analogy to use as a rule of thumb:
1) If you're clearly more powerful than your enemy, ask yourself, "What would Superman do?"
2) If you're NOT clearly more powerful than your enemy, go with, "What would Batman do?"
Now for paladin players, here's a safe analogy to use as a rule of thumb:
1) If you're clearly more powerful than your enemy, ask yourself, "What would Superman do?"
2) If you're NOT clearly more powerful than your enemy, go with, "What would Batman do?"
Peter Gibbons
First Post
Quoted for truth.Patryn of Elvenshae said:
Bagpuss
Legend
Patryn of Elvenshae said:
Quote for truth. There are ways in which killing the halfing could be seen as legal (Paladins are like Judge's in Megacity one) but not lawful (personal vengence) and other ways it could be illegal (Paladin's are not officals of the law) and yet still lawful (since killing the halfing protects society from a dangerous individual, and he didn't have time to detain him and run upstairs to protect his family).
Joonaibug
First Post
It probably comes from watching too much Law and Order on television, but I'd review the extenuating circumstances before coming to any hoard decision. There are all sorts of questions to be asked, such as:
- How severe of an Assault was perpetrated upon the wife? Was it a severe but non-life-threating attack, or would it be better classified as "Attempted Murder"?
- What was the halfling's exact role in the assault? Did he (or she) participate directly in the attack, or were they only a minor player?
- What's the backdrop of the whole situation -- that is, does this scenario take place in a fairly "civilized" setting such as a large city with a well-developed justice system? Or is the locale more of a backwater, "Wild-West" type of area?
- What are the circumstances of the paladin's act of retribution? Is it an passionate lashing-out at the forces which hurt his loved ones, or is it a cold "You answered all my questions, now you die" method of execution?
- Finally, is this the Paladin's first "transgression" (depending on how the DM interpret's the Paladin's Code)? Or is it merely a continuation of similar offenses in the past?
I'd personally rely on the answers to these questions to guide my decision. If the paladin is acting out of instictual rage at the harming of his loved ones. . .well, that's why the "Temporary Insanity" plea was created.
Ultimately, I probably wouldn't penalize the Paladin in terms of class abilities (unless he was making a hobit of actions such as these), but I wouldn't reward him, either. Although we can sympathize with him for acting the way he did, the fact remains that he may have killed a halfling who (currently) offers no direct threat to him or anyone else.
When all is said and done, I'd probably come up with a set of in-character reprimands for the paladin in question, such as an elder of the faith suspending the character's "Churchly Duties" until the paladin (and the rest of the party) bring to justice the remainder of the group who assaulted the wife. I'd probably also make it a requirement that the remaining criminals be brought in alive.
EDIT:
- How severe of an Assault was perpetrated upon the wife? Was it a severe but non-life-threating attack, or would it be better classified as "Attempted Murder"?
- What was the halfling's exact role in the assault? Did he (or she) participate directly in the attack, or were they only a minor player?
- What's the backdrop of the whole situation -- that is, does this scenario take place in a fairly "civilized" setting such as a large city with a well-developed justice system? Or is the locale more of a backwater, "Wild-West" type of area?
- What are the circumstances of the paladin's act of retribution? Is it an passionate lashing-out at the forces which hurt his loved ones, or is it a cold "You answered all my questions, now you die" method of execution?
- Finally, is this the Paladin's first "transgression" (depending on how the DM interpret's the Paladin's Code)? Or is it merely a continuation of similar offenses in the past?
I'd personally rely on the answers to these questions to guide my decision. If the paladin is acting out of instictual rage at the harming of his loved ones. . .well, that's why the "Temporary Insanity" plea was created.
Ultimately, I probably wouldn't penalize the Paladin in terms of class abilities (unless he was making a hobit of actions such as these), but I wouldn't reward him, either. Although we can sympathize with him for acting the way he did, the fact remains that he may have killed a halfling who (currently) offers no direct threat to him or anyone else.
When all is said and done, I'd probably come up with a set of in-character reprimands for the paladin in question, such as an elder of the faith suspending the character's "Churchly Duties" until the paladin (and the rest of the party) bring to justice the remainder of the group who assaulted the wife. I'd probably also make it a requirement that the remaining criminals be brought in alive.
EDIT:
Waitaminute; I thought that was exactly what "Lawful" meant, seeing as Legal means "of or relating to the Law".
Last edited:
tonym said:
Most murders, are crimes of passion. I've heard of many hineous and cruel crimes based on love and passion... someone catching their spouse in an affair, or taking cruel and horrible revenge for perceived crimes against a loved one, etc. That passion clouds reason, and the innocent are often hurt or killed because of it.
A paladin attempts to be above such things. His calling is not to earthly passions, but to something mightier. Falling victim to such things would, if grivious enough, cause his fall.
From the SRD:
"Good" implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.
"Law" implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability.
How do the paladin's actions fall into either category?
"Good" implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.
"Law" implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability.
How do the paladin's actions fall into either category?
Peter Gibbons
First Post
No, he doesn't. You will not find that commandment anywhere in the paladin class description, and all it would take from me is an example of an unjust law (slavery, for example) to have you hastily backpedaling on that claim.ForceUser said:
You will, however, find this in the paladin's code: "Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she...punish those who harm or threaten innocents." Now, there's no question that mercy is a Good virtue, but that doesn't mean that all non-merciful actions are Evil.
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