The Paladin killed someone...what to do?

[Truth Seeker]

The Other Factors...Bring on the Wife!!!

Well...after 12 pages, 559 postings and viewed
5,654 times...no one, no one has hit on the true ramifications in that house. BAH , time to show them...the way.

For Galfridus

Forgive me...but what is offered here, is a suggestion...massive, but a suggestion none the less.

Last scene:The 'paladin' in question, the man of the house, was told by his friend the cleric. His wife was attacked, but is safe.

Halfing life was getting pretty bleak, and further ending was oncoming.

Scene continued; With a new element...the wife will make her way down stairs.

Calling out his name, if he doesn't hear it at first, then she will arrive at the room (she is moving quick), where a possible death might occur.

Upon seeing the scene, she will physically pull him off the hapless halfing, with this saying, "Do not bring bad omens to our house, when our child is so near to be born."

She will be calm in her manner, and voice *she will be for a reason* If the husband relents, the wife will be holding on to one of his hands, in a firm and secure grip.

Without missing a beat, she will direct the Cleric to do curates, to save the halfing*Yeah, save the Halfing *

She will give hubby a LOOK, don't describe it in detail, just say, she wants him to be quiet for now.

Dramatize the life and death situation with the cleric, who working feverishly to save the halfing...run it like for two minutes or more...*not pass 7, brain dead occurs *

Between that time, the only sound that should be heard, is the cleric working his best to save the halfing.

The wife is staring at the halfing, one hand holding her husband's, the other hand resting on her belly, where the unborn child is.

Vizual insertion snip lines:The halfing looks like a child now, halpless and defendless...showing all the bruises put upon him or her.

She is rubbing her belly in a caring fashion, and maintaining that grip on his hand, and staring at the halfing, showing great concern.

She will say nothing, and her posture will state, she wants to hear nothing, until the crisis has pass...

At one point, the gurgling cough of the halfing will bring a sign of relief, but before that, if the second PC, who was upstairs, if comes down, she will direct that person, to get the nightwatch, with haste.

That will be only time she will speak again.

Halfing recovery is going slow...but it should be enough time for the Nightwatch to show...during that time, no one should be speaking, expect for the Cleric, *describe the means of saving the halfing*

Upon the Nightwatch entering, she speaks, first to the semi-conscious halfing, who will become wide awake, when she moves up close with hubby in tow. To the halfing's face.

She will ask for the truth, and she will state politely, if the truth is not told, she has all right, to exact punishment.

Continue the hand holding, and belly rubbing, and if hubby try to speak, give that LOOK, to say nothing.

Halfing's view, a very pregnant human woman is kneeling before him. And he heard right, she wants the truth.

Her demeanor is calm, no anger, just calm, but he will realize why she is rubbing her belly...*she mentally, or emotionaly shifting the anxiety feelings to her hubby, so that unborn will not be effected by the stress*

The halfing will know of this, from his youngling days...

Choice:tell the truth or she will kill him.

The Nightwatch, the PC cleric, the other PC friend, and then the hubby, will all get this feeling from her.

She is not playing around.

Follow through:Halfing will talk or die.
If talk, will go with Nightwatch after confession. But before that happens, just after confession *if there one*, wife will verbally chastise hubby for almost bringing bad vibes to their home, and almost spilling 'innocent' blood.*she will hold at there, there is more to come*

Halfing will be chastise for being a fool, and for being duped to come here and awakening the family at a late hour. She will continue that this enterprise to bring harm to her and baby, is uncivilized and she will literally spell it out, that this action speaks against all pregnant mothers in the city.

They are not safe from ruffians like him.

Nightwatch is going to get an earful on this.

The halfing will be giving the book on life, read on him...by the time she is finished, doing all this, with her calm voice and posture.

The halfing should be in tears...

If the discussion is successful...halfing on his way out, will offered a, very, very, very, very heartfelt apology. *He will have flashback memories of home, the human woman will remind him of his own mother, tell no one that in the game *

Home grounds are checked again and made secure.

Wife askes hubby to escort her upstairs, alone....she will direct him to the guest bedroom, where she will tell him straight out, when they get there...no anger in her voice. He will need to reflect on his ability to manage his anger.

Make no mention of the church, religion and whatever else has been prescribed by others here. That includes his paladinhood.

She will say with the following, "If and when I give birth to our child, and unto the days, when the little will be about our home, getting into mischief and the usual trappings of what a growing child does. Will you get that upset, if something was done, so terribly wrong, that you will strike out like that, at so fragile a body...from your own size and strength, they cannot defend against?"

If he tries to speak, she will silent him, with a lightly touched finger placed on his lips. She will go on to say, that he will need to reflect alone on this, in the guestroom for two days...until she sees him again.

Then she will leave, blowing him a warm kiss, and with different look now, that can be told, after what has happened, the relationship has been taken in a different direction...both of them will have to make adjustments upon this...pasting drama.

Summary, besides all the cries of stripping and a body switching idea...the wife, the wife has a stake in these matters.

That is her husband.

The father to be, of her child.

Her lover...

And her dearest friend.​

This is all a suggestion, it is your game...but for me, I have a thing for women who are married to a paladin.

You just don't mess with them...at all. The unknown strength they can possess...is very scary.

Damn...love the drama.

 

[LordBOB]

hey Truth Seeker

while you give a good point and i like the story line i think you are a little confused on something. I went back to the first page and had to re read it to make sure i wasnt missing anything. From what I've read you missed a few major key points.

1. The paladin was called out into the streets away from his home.
2. The wife was assaulted ( i dont know how bad but she was)

you could argue that when the pladin heard about his wife he was tyring to exact revenge for his wife ( which is ok in my eyes). The wife wouldnt of been in any position to talk her husband down. Also the Paladin might be fearing for the life of his unborn child and only wants to protect them and make sure this never happens again.

You still have an AWESOME story line. All in all it is totally up the the DM and the player. One part of being a paladin ( in my eyes ) Is the ability to have your own morals and code of conduct. While im not saying to dis obey the church, im saying that you should also ask yourself whats right or wrong. Everyone has their own idea of whats right and wrong and they use it to their advantage. Why should the paladin be the only one not able to act on his personal beliefs for fear of being punished badly.

My Paladin and my DM have set up a quite simple situation for these things. If i do something bad in the others players eyes, or the DM, we might stop the game and talk about it, If i am able to defend myself with a well thought good reason and i am able to explain my actions than he might let it slide. If i am able to prove (in my eyes) that what i did was either for the greater good, or the well being of the rest of my group, than the action isnt seen as bad. This is simpally b/c i was able to prove to my DM and my fellow players that i was right, and i usually dont get punished. After words i will continue to go by the guidlines i have set for myself during the rest of the pladins life.

 

[ThirdWizard]

2. The wife was assaulted ( i dont know how bad but she was)

It's a little late to bring this up, but maybe we should stop using that word. People keep thinking something was done to her, and we have no idea what if anything was done to her. "Assaulted" carries the connotation that she has been injured in some way. While possible she has been mystically attacked, her physical condition is perfectly fine. A few divinations would probably clear up what, if anything, has been done to her or the child.

 

[LordBOB]

It's a little late to bring this up, but maybe we should stop using that word. People keep thinking something was done to her, and we have no idea what if anything was done to her. "Assaulted" carries the connotation that she has been injured in some way. While possible she has been mystically attacked, her physical condition is perfectly fine. A few divinations would probably clear up what, if anything, has been done to her or the child.

I understand what you mean, but according to the original post it never talked about the wife being healed. Also we dont know what "assaulted" in this text means. The paladin wouldnt of know exactly how ( or how bad) she was hurt and he wouldnt of cared that much. He would of been furious that someone was messing with his loved one and that would of been enough to take the law "into his own hands".

Personally i think this thread needs to be locked and we need to move on with our lives...everyone has their own ideas of "Good" and not a single answer will be totally right, since everyone has thier own views. ( just my view)

 

[FickleGM]

...Personally i think this thread needs to be locked and we need to move on with our lives...

Awe, and we've made so much progress . Yes, people aren't going to necessarily change their views due to the arguments that are posed here, but I am still enjoying some of the discussion.

Also, if the thread was locked, I wouldn't have seen Truth Seekers last post. Sure, it took a strange turn, but was a perspective that I hadn't even considered. Those are the sorts of tidbits that I hope sit in my mind waiting to be unleashed during a game to create one of those "moments"...

 

[LordBOB]

Awe, and we've made so much progress . Yes, people aren't going to necessarily change their views due to the arguments that are posed here, but I am still enjoying some of the discussion.

Also, if the thread was locked, I wouldn't have seen Truth Seekers last post. Sure, it took a strange turn, but was a perspective that I hadn't even considered. Those are the sorts of tidbits that I hope sit in my mind waiting to be unleashed during a game to create one of those "moments"...

ok ok ok...you have made your point. This thread should NOT be locked for the slim chance that others like Truth Seeker will grace us with interesting ideas. *gives Truth Seeker a BIG round of applause*

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

First- apologies.

Despite my repeated postings of the original scenario, somehow, I misread it myself and somehow inserted "kidnapped" in there somehow...by the time I caught it, it was too late. Mea Culpa! Mea Culpa! Mea Maxima Culpa!

It's a little late to bring this up, but maybe we should stop using that word. People keep thinking something was done to her, and we have no idea what if anything was done to her. "Assaulted" carries the connotation that she has been injured in some way. While possible she has been mystically attacked, her physical condition is perfectly fine. A few divinations would probably clear up what, if anything, has been done to her or the child.

IMHO, assault still seems appropriate:

Black's Law Dictionary:Assault: Any willful attempt or threat to inflict injury upon the person of another, when coupled with an apparent present ability to do so, and any intentional dispaly of force such as would give the victim reaons to fear or expect immediate bodily harm, constitutes an assault. An assault may be committed without actually touching, or striking , or doing bodily harm to the person of another. For a crime of assalut victim need not be apprehensive of fear if the outward gesture is menacing...

- The DM (and by extention, presumably the paladin's god) is of the opinion that what happened was "Obviously an Approved Paladin Activity", and "excessive, with elements of chaotic and evil behavior".

If that's his call, that's what controls- DM's game, DM's rules. IMC, given all the factors as discussed ad infinitum supra, I'd see it as no different than a coup-de-grace.

And how I would adjudicate the consequences would depend on which LG god the PC followed. A LG god of War, etc., might look favorably upon followers who smite evil as and when they see it, wheras a LG god of Justice might favor more reflective types who seek out the deeper roots. The difference? The former might witness an evil act and mete out instant punishment, whereas the latter might ask why the act was comitted and whether the perpetrator was rehabilitatable.

- The player himself has said that the act was "moderately evil and chaotic", and "not necessarily appropriate for a paladin."

Sometimes, we are our own harshest judges. What matters (as far as stripping powers goes) is primarily how the deity sees things. Of course, there is nothing wrong with a LG Deity who might let his follower's own self-percieved guilt or innocence determine his punishment, if any. (Think about Red Dwarf's Justice Zone episode...)

- The paladin's actions were illegal under the local law, and there may have been witnesses

Again, DM's game, DM's rules. If the rules of this land bar such behavior, then so be it, let him be called to court. However, as others have pointed out, if the Paladin's god has rules that are not in accord with the local law, the Paladin obeys his divine calling first, then the laws of the land.

As I've pointed out before, however, the laws differ from land to land, from religion to religion. Some favor swift, harsh justice, some favor rehabilitation.

- The halfling isn't dead yet, and may survive (although that's really up to the "rough and tumble priest of Kord" present, and not necessarily something we can count on).

That halfling may get lucky...

 

[Acid_crash]

Ya know what... just kill the Paladin and we won't have this argument.

 

[FickleGM]

Ya know what... just kill the Paladin and we won't have this argument.

Unless the Paladin is killed by a Paladin...

 

[Truth Seeker]

I saw it, but I was going on the first postings*yeah saw the street bit, but the indoor drama was a touch of flare* of the author .

But thanks for compliments, but as I said, it was just a suggestion. When all the elements present, are not used to their fullest, things can go wrong.

One, what was written, was done to point out one thing...deal with it, from the human perpective first, then the paladin stuff will follow.

Paladins are made, not born, so in the end, it is the human factor that needs attention...by the 'wife' showing the barriers that broke down, for the moment...things like having the anger, as seen, would have affected the marriage, the home, his friends, and then leading into his standing as a paladin. All the common pieces that make that person, who they are...need that attention also.

The small stuff, can be, for certain times...have been ignored, or forgotten.

Whatever the case, I have to say, this whole thread has been a blast to watch and read...but it also points out one thing also, time and time again.

We are no closer, in understanding on what a paladin means to us.

And like also, the debate will continue in form or another...but EnWorld exist for us, to give the exchange of ideas...well, I add another to the pool.

It is up those, who wish to use it...when high expection is placed on the paladin's mantle, too high sometimes...we do set up ourselves for the greater disappoint, when they fall.

And that, is our own fault.

while you give a good point and i like the story line i think you are a little confused on something. I went back to the first page and had to re read it to make sure i wasnt missing anything. From what I've read you missed a few major key points.

1. The paladin was called out into the streets away from his home.
2. The wife was assaulted ( i dont know how bad but she was)

you could argue that when the pladin heard about his wife he was tyring to exact revenge for his wife ( which is ok in my eyes). The wife wouldnt of been in any position to talk her husband down. Also the Paladin might be fearing for the life of his unborn child and only wants to protect them and make sure this never happens again.

You still have an AWESOME story line. All in all it is totally up the the DM and the player. One part of being a paladin ( in my eyes ) Is the ability to have your own morals and code of conduct. While im not saying to dis obey the church, im saying that you should also ask yourself whats right or wrong. Everyone has their own idea of whats right and wrong and they use it to their advantage. Why should the paladin be the only one not able to act on his personal beliefs for fear of being punished badly.

My Paladin and my DM have set up a quite simple situation for these things. If i do something bad in the others players eyes, or the DM, we might stop the game and talk about it, If i am able to defend myself with a well thought good reason and i am able to explain my actions than he might let it slide. If i am able to prove (in my eyes) that what i did was either for the greater good, or the well being of the rest of my group, than the action isnt seen as bad. This is simpally b/c i was able to prove to my DM and my fellow players that i was right, and i usually dont get punished. After words i will continue to go by the guidlines i have set for myself during the rest of the pladins life.