The price of a horse.

Antonlowe

First Post
How much do you think a horse should cost? I am talking about a regular riding/work horse. Not one trained for battle or a race horse.

I am assuming that a commoner makes about 12.5cp per day of economic output. 7cp gets taxed in most locations. It requires 5cp to live at a subsistence level.

I was thinking that a horse would be worth about a month’s worth of untaxed income which would make it worth 375cp.

Does this sound reasonable.
 

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pdzoch

Explorer
Ultimately, you can set the prices as you see fit in your campaign. Prices are going to be dependent on availability and demand. The price of a riding horse is provided in the player's manual, but you are not beholding to those prices. Given a 75gp price of a riding horse in the player's manual, a 375cp horse does not sound unreasonable if it is not intended to for anything other than light work (a pet horse, older horse, etc). However, in a medieval setting, or in a high fantasy setting, owning a horse set the upper class apart from the common folk. Any horse a common person own was probably low quality and not desirable by a noble or hero. I would guess prices for a horse in the player's handbook would be for a hero worthy horse and not the common nag.
 

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
If you think a horse is too pricey for your peasants, remember that they would often combine their efforts: Jack buys a horse, Fred buys a plow, John buys a thresher, Widow Sal plants nothing but oats, &c., and everybody gets together (with their equipment) to work all their fields. In the end, somebody or other has every piece needed to make the whole thing work.
 


Rather than a horse, it would be more likely they would own an *ox. Or, rather, as has been pointed out, that they would own some share or portion of said animal.

A peasant's life has been unduly portrayed as endlessly depressing in fiction. The average peasant, presuming they **survived to adulthood, would be far more likely to die of old age than anything else; at a ripe old age of 70 to 75. Furthermore, there were a number of ^feasts, ^festivities, and ^games each year. Nor would a typical peasant wear muddy greys and browns. Certain dyes were reserved for royalty and the rich; but plenty of dyes weren't, and ^^embroidery was a well-known and widely-practised art. People didn't always bath often, but that was because, while you could argue that dirt made you more likely to get sick, everyone knew that freezing in the wintertime made it more likely for you to get dead. And you needed that firewood to keep your house warm. In the summertime, there were streams and rivers if you wanted to get the sweat and dirt off, which people would regularly take advantage of.

* A domestic bull, raised and bred for work rather than food, and possibly gelded. The plural is "oxen", not "oxes"; a statement which also occurs in a famous silly poem about English spelling. And at this point, there may be approximately two and a half items of TMI, and here we have one proverbial lampshade.

** The major problem here being surviving childhood illnesses long enough to develop a robust immune system; so, if one made it to about twelve, one was most likely "in the clear".

^ A typical use for a feast would be to get rid of all the food that was closing in on its due date. That being said, smoked and salted meat can keep for a long time, and it is most likely proper to regard with dubiousness any claim that medieval people regularly ate rotten meat. The average peasant used about 45 kg of salt per year, far more than would be needed for table salt. Festivities would generally occur on holy days and various other events people felt like commemorating, such as marriages and historical events. Games included various forms of ball-and-goal played against nearby villages, and were typically quite brutal. To the point that the Catholic Church made particular appeals to keep the violence down and enacted limited bans; the most notorious other such appeals being jousting and the use of crossbows.

^^ If, at any point, you enter a fantasy or medieval world and desire to sell your clothes off, do not expect the locals to be that impressed with your factory-made clothes. Yes, the threads are quite densely packed...On some clothes. However, the dye job is most likely one that will quickly flake away; the clothes themselves are relatively thin; and the embroidery is non-existent. You would be much better off selling the idea of a zipper...Carefully. Accidents can happen. A factory means you can pay for a new shirt with the equivalent of two good meals at an "inn"... It also means you still get what you pay for. My apologies for any upset.

ps: ...And my apologies for the info-dump; it seemed useful to address some info around the general idea of peasant livelyhood and welfare. :)
 
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Capn Charlie

Explorer
How rich is the common man? Depending on the era a horse could cost a month or twos wages, or a year or more.

When I was doing research for my gritty game I repriced them to be closer to historic prices where a stonemasons apprentice earns two silver pence a day and might spend one of them on a poor lifestyle and a horse costs 320 of these silver pence.

Sent from my MT2L03 using EN World mobile app
 

aramis erak

Legend
How much do you think a horse should cost? I am talking about a regular riding/work horse. Not one trained for battle or a race horse.

I am assuming that a commoner makes about 12.5cp per day of economic output. 7cp gets taxed in most locations. It requires 5cp to live at a subsistence level.

I was thinking that a horse would be worth about a month’s worth of untaxed income which would make it worth 375cp.

Does this sound reasonable.

Historically, the horses on a manor-fief were generally worth more each than the manor itself was.

A good horse is a 15+ year investment, and are priced as such. Also, in most places, a commoner couldn't own nor ride a horse legally; they used oxen for carts and blow pulling, and walked or rode carts. A cheap horse was 2-3 £ in the Domesday survey; a well bred warhorse in desirable colors about 100£ ... and the D&D GP is about 1 shilling of value of the Domesday survey era... so call it a range of 30 gp to 2000 gp.
 

Historically, the horses on a manor-fief were generally worth more each than the manor itself was.

A good horse is a 15+ year investment, and are priced as such. Also, in most places, a commoner couldn't own nor ride a horse legally; they used oxen for carts and blow pulling, and walked or rode carts. A cheap horse was 2-3 £ in the Domesday survey; a well bred warhorse in desirable colors about 100£ ... and the D&D GP is about 1 shilling of value of the Domesday survey era... so call it a range of 30 gp to 2000 gp.
In the d20 System era, *at least, the cost of "adventuring gear" is **inflated by about 20 times. Given that probably-viable divisor, a galley (large medieval warship) has a price of 1,500 "gold pieces".

This is reasonably in line with a peacetime crown revenue of 30,000 gold pieces.

As a side note, and not meant to be snide, :) Dungeons and Dragons in general should not be used as an accurate source of: Coinage, earnings, weapon and armour weights, prices for any item, sizes and shapes of weapons or armour; types of armour, and for certain editions, types of weapons. Certain exceptions include the d20 System version by dividing "adventuring gear" prices by 20; that same system for weapon and armour weights with the assumption that one-quarter to one-half of the weight of the weapon is an appropriate sheath or storage; and a fairly robust ability of even peasants to make a living, including using the rules in the DMG 2, provided one first divides those monetary numbers by 20, as they are intended for higher-level adventurers who want a stable base. Of course, Dungeons and Dragons has other things it is unrealistic about, but I intend to inform, not insult. :)

* Other eras also have this effect, but possibly or probably to different ratios.

** As posted by someone (apologies; I do not remember who) in a news thread on this forum, where someone posted a medieval price list. I then did some math to check this assertation, and found it reasonably sound. Checking my bookmarks...

The site linked to in the ENWorld news post: http://www.luminarium.org/medlit/medprice.htm

Checking my history reveals that I probably could easily find the item, if Firefox' history search had more utility - I can find the linked site, and the ENWorld post is most likely close to it; but that does not actually help find the ENWorld post.
 


Also remember, no prices are ever set. People haggle, especially about horses :)
For some things, I think there may have been fixed prices; although I have no actual data to back this up.

It simply passes the "common sense" check; for example, given an inn, the proprietor would most likely not want to barter over every bowl of potato and onion soup. :)

Of course, having no actual data is an easy way to be wrong. :)
 

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