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D&D 5E The Problem With At Will Attack Granting

mellored

Legend
Healing come from the same spell slots though so there is resource trade off.
At level 5, a cleric can run bless every battle, and still have 2 mass healing words and a cure wound.

So a level 5 warlord could grant an attack every round, and have about 45 HP worth of healing.

If you get at will attack granting what are you gonna trade off?
Your other actions.

Maybe it's easier if you think of it as...
"Every character gains a pool of 8 actions. You can expend an action to make an attack or cast a cantrip, but only once per turn. Classes may provide other uses for this pool. The pool refils when they take a short rest."
 

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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I have thought this through. And three character levels is a pretty significant investment, so far as multiclassing goes.

Open your eyes. A level 3 warlord and X whatever can attack like the most damaging class in the party and then do whatever out of combat stuff he wants. Heck, just multiclass with life cleric and wear heavy armor and action grant and cast healing word in combat. You have made a character that fights almost just like a fighter and heals almost just like a cleric. Heck, be a wizard or bard instead of a cleric and save all your spells for out of combat situations. Use magic weapon whenever you buff your CE SS fighter ally as it just takes a bonus action and will give extra to hit and damage on even more attacks than it normally would give.

Like.... If you think that's okay then we might as well end the conversation as nothing will convince you anything is a bad idea.
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
Open your eyes.

That's a little condescending. Just because I've reached a different conclusion doesn't mean I'm blind, asleep, or otherwise not seeing things clearly.


A level 3 warlord and X whatever can attack like the most damaging class in the party and then do whatever out of combat stuff he wants.

No, she can't. When you grant actions, you aren't taking or performing those actions. You're allowing others to act in your place. When you do this, you're not attacking. You're not even the one in the spotlight because you're foregoing the ability to do anything on your own so someone else can act off-turn.

Heck, the party actually loses action potential. Without action granting, your ally could still take that action on their next turn, and you could act on your turn. With action granting, your ally sacrifices a reaction to act earlier and you lose the ability to act on your own. The party is, net, down a reaction just so someone else can act in the warlord's place.

Another way to think of it is like this: the warlord effectively uses her action and burns the reaction of an ally to summon a creature who's an exact copy of one of her allies to perform an action and then immediately disappear.


Heck, just multiclass with life cleric and wear heavy armor and action grant and cast healing word in combat. You have made a character that fights almost just like a fighter and heals almost just like a cleric.

That character isn't fighting like a fighter. That character is non-acting and burning an ally's reaction to have an ally take a prescribed action.

You're also looking at things in a vacuum. For example, my idea for the warlord would prevent the warlord from maintaining concentration when granting actions. My premise for this is that the kind of battlefield awareness a warlord has to have in order to grant actions requires an amount of focus that precludes concentrating on spells (or on magical item effects that require concentration to maintain).


Heck, be a wizard or bard instead of a cleric and save all your spells for out of combat situations. Use magic weapon whenever you buff your CE SS fighter ally as it just takes a bonus action and will give extra to hit and damage on even more attacks than it normally would give.

Chaotic evil schutzstaffel fighter ally?


Like.... If you think that's okay then we might as well end the conversation as nothing will convince you anything is a bad idea.

Again, condescending. Plenty of things are bad ideas.
 


MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
The biggest proof against at-will attack granting causing problems is that I've gotten plenty of feedback about the Path of Hearth Noble, and none of it even says it is a problem, some have even told me it was a little on the weak side.
[MENTION=6795602]FrogReaver[/MENTION], [MENTION=6777341]Zaar[/MENTION]dnar
 
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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
That's a little condescending. Just because I've reached a different conclusion doesn't mean I'm blind, asleep, or otherwise not seeing things clearly.




No, she can't. When you grant actions, you aren't taking or performing those actions. You're allowing others to act in your place. When you do this, you're not attacking. You're not even the one in the spotlight because you're foregoing the ability to do anything on your own so someone else can act off-turn.

Heck, the party actually loses action potential. Without action granting, your ally could still take that action on their next turn, and you could act on your turn. With action granting, your ally sacrifices a reaction to act earlier and you lose the ability to act on your own. The party is, net, down a reaction just so someone else can act in the warlord's place.

Another way to think of it is like this: the warlord effectively uses her action and burns the reaction of an ally to summon a creature who's an exact copy of one of her allies to perform an action and then immediately disappear.




That character isn't fighting like a fighter. That character is non-acting and burning an ally's reaction to have an ally take a prescribed action.

You're also looking at things in a vacuum. For example, my idea for the warlord would prevent the warlord from maintaining concentration when granting actions. My premise for this is that the kind of battlefield awareness a warlord has to have in order to grant actions requires an amount of focus that precludes concentrating on spells (or on magical item effects that require concentration to maintain).




Chaotic evil schutzstaffel fighter ally?




Again, condescending. Plenty of things are bad ideas.

I'll tell you what. Maybe if you actually lay out your vision instead of throwing ideas and restrictions into the discussion piecemeal this conversation might be a lot more productive.
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
I'll tell you what. Maybe if you actually lay out your vision instead of throwing ideas and restrictions into the discussion piecemeal this conversation might be a lot more productive.

Sure. I can't do it right now, as I'm only reading and posting here during occasional study breaks (I have the final exam in the last class needed for my Masters degree on Wednesday). But, once the final is over I'll have more time.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
The biggest proof against at-will attack granting causing problems is that I've gotten plenty of feedback about the Path of Hearth Noble, and none of it even says it is a problem, some have even told me it was a little on the weak side.

I can create a weak full caster class, a weak melee class etc. It has nothing to do with whether spells are weak or extra attack is weak. It's all to do with the specific implementation.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
The biggest proof against at-will attack granting causing problems is that I've gotten plenty of feedback about the Path of Hearth Noble, and none of it even says it is a problem, some have even told me it was a little on the weak side.
[MENTION=6795602]FrogReaver[/MENTION], [MENTION=6777341]Zaar[/MENTION]/QUOTE]

Noble doesn't really fit the 5E design paradigm and you have sacrificed everything to enable it and added restrictions.
 

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