D&D 5E The Problem With At Will Attack Granting

[mellored]

Not a fan of rerolling or maximizing damage as score concept feature. Rerolling will always feel less powerful than it is, and is less powerful than bonus damage, and maximizing is just...boring? People want to roll.

People seems to like advantage. Which is rerolling.
Maybe crits instead of maximizing? Slightly more powerful.

As for the legendary action thing, it’s just legendary actions, given to the warlord as a class feature, maybe X/long rest or short rest or whatever, and the warlord can let his allies do stuff using those legendary actions. They can be used during the warlord’s turn, or at the end of someone else’s turn, and there is a specific list of effects. Some are movement, some buff, one allows an attack, and some target multiple allies while some target just one. Capstone might be an ability that allows multiple allies to make an extra attack.

So... extra reactions?
Works for me.

Some “gambits” could also be debuffs, of course.

Agreed.

 

[Zardnaar]

You have yet to actually demonstrate that is a problem. Please do so. Please back up that assertion.

Compare with how much damage clerics do. An extra two dice by level 14. Warlords a support PC at the end of the day. If you want to do lots of damage at will play BM fighter.

 

[Yunru]

Compare with how much damage clerics do. An extra two dice by level 14. Warlords a support PC at the end of the day. If you want to do lots of damage at will play BM fighter.

Yeah sure. Except by that metric you have to include any damage dealt because of the Cleric's Bless (and other support spells), and we all know how you feel about that.

Double standards man. Either count the damage enabled for both classes, or neither.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah sure. Except by that metric you have to include any damage dealt because of the Cleric's Bless (and other support spells), and we all know how you feel about that.

Double standards man. Either count the damage enabled for both classes, or neither.

Bless is not at will daily effect. One of my warlord gets it as a short rest ability.
I have no problems of support classes enabling damage it's how much is the million dollar question.

 

[MechaPilot]

Compare with how much damage clerics do. An extra two dice by level 14. Warlords a support PC at the end of the day.

Clerics can also raise the dead, remove curses and perform a litany of support features a warlord simply cannot. Warlords can't support as well as a cleric, but (assuming your two dice assertion is accurate, though you didn't show me any numbers with it) they can enable more damage. Since a warlord is a combat-focused support character, that makes sense.

And, frankly, you still have yet to demonstrate how and where this is a problem. What does it break? What does it render obsolete? How does it steal spotlight from other characters? Where, for the love of god, is the damage caused to the gameplay that infringes on other people having fun at the table?

If you want to do lots of damage at will play BM fighter.

Don't tell me what to play. That comes off as very patronizing. I've spent about 30 years playing various editions of D&D, as well as other RPGs; I think I've earned the right to decide for myself what I get to play.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

People seems to like advantage. Which is rerolling.
Maybe crits instead of maximizing? Slightly more powerful.

So... extra reactions?
Works for me.

Agreed.

Advantage is fun, rerolling damage just feels meh, to me. YMMV.

Crits could work.

Yeah, but specifically only usable in a specific set of ways

 

[Zardnaar]

Clerics can also raise the dead, remove curses and perform a litany of support features a warlord simply cannot. Warlords can't support as well as a cleric, but (assuming your two dice assertion is accurate, though you didn't show me any numbers with it) they can enable more damage. Since a warlord is a combat-focused support character, that makes sense.

And, frankly, you still have yet to demonstrate how and where this is a problem. What does it break? What does it render obsolete? How does it steal spotlight from other characters? Where, for the love of god, is the damage caused to the gameplay that infringes on other people having fun at the table?




Don't tell me what to play. That comes off as very patronizing. I've spent about 30 years playing various editions of D&D, as well as other RPGs; I think I've earned the right to decide for myself what I get to play.

I don't care what you play but it's basically complaining that if you play a wizard you expect to deal fighter level damage in melee at will.

The 5E support classes deal meh damage outside of daily spells. Clerics get a dice at level 8 and 14 or stat modifier to damage.

The at will damage granting us out of whack compared with everything else.

 

[MechaPilot]

I don't care what you play but it's basically complaining that if you play a wizard you expect to deal fighter level damage in melee at will.

The 5E support classes deal meh damage outside of daily spells. Clerics get a dice at level 8 and 14 or stat modifier to damage.

The at will damage granting us out of whack compared with everything else.

You have yet to demonstrate it being out of whack. Please answer the questions I posed to you.

What does it break? And how?
What does it render obsolete? And how?
How does it steal spotlight from other characters?
Where, for the love of god, is the damage caused to the gameplay that infringes on other people having fun at the table?

 

[MoonSong]

What's the best weapon in the game? The rogue. When I wield him I do 11d6+5 damage on a single attack!!!!

And that's the problem for an at will attack granting right there.

I still fail to see the problem, unless you also have objection to having two rogues in the same party?

 

[Zardnaar]

I still fail to see the problem, unless you also have objection to having two rogues in the same party?

Two different classes. If you want rogue level damage be a rogue and not a support class. Note I have no objections to warlords dealing lots of damage just not at will much like a spell buffed cleric who needs spells to deal fighter level damage. A warlord ability that grants an action surge to a party that's good right?