D&D (2024) The sorcerer shouldn't exist

[Minigiant]

Overall.

The D&D wizard and it's mechanical are the anomaly. Gygax based the wizard on Vance's Dying Earth. Almost no "scholarly wizard not derived from D&D" looks or works like the D&D wizard. The continuation of the Vancosn wizard is a pure D&Dism. You don't see prepping spells from a spell book into slots often in media.

Most "wizards" in fantasy books, TV, and movies work closer to sorcerers with the ritual caster feat and have lore closer to the sorcerer.

 

[Blue]

"Magic-user minus spellbook" has never exactly been a compelling archetype.

This is incorrect.

Magic mastery through study and magic mastery through gifts, bloodline, or talent have both been longstanding tropes in fantasy works. There's likelu more casters out there in stories and movies who do not do it through study then there are.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Overall.

The D&D wizard and it's mechanical are the anomaly. Gygax based the wizard on Vance's Dying Earth. Almost no "scholarly wizard not derived from D&D" looks or works like the D&D wizard. The continuation of the Vancosn wizard is a pure D&Dism. You don't see prepping spells from a spell book into slots often in media.

Most "wizards" in fantasy books, TV, and movies work closer to sorcerers with the ritual caster feat and have lore closer to the sorcerer.

The D&D Wizard is one of the most "D&D" things there is, and that is worth keeping for the D&D game. I like D&D spellcasting and cannot stand spell point casting as a primary mechanic. I also believe that tying primary mechanics to 1-hour short rests has proven to be untenable for the community as a whole, even if some tables have made it work.

Sorcerers and Warlocks have been around in a variety of iterations, and some of the earlier versions didn't get great narrative+mechanical synchronicity, but in 5E there is an opportunity to really glow them up. And that is what I am pulling for. There are too many good mage/caster ideas for them to live in one class or subclass. So I think it is a boon to spread those abilities out into appropriate thematic class and subclass options. This way, those who love Wizards can keep them, those who love Sorcerers can keep them, those who love Warlocks can keep them, and those who love them all, and want them to feel unique from each other, can get their way too.

I still think there is ample opportunity for a Sorcerer to feel different while still using D&D spellcasting. The playtest version is a good first step that can be tweaked further. And though I don't like Short Rest recharges for Warlock spells, after hearing the ideas from other posters here, I also now agree there can be a way to save Pact Magic without tying them to Short Rests as the recharge mechanic.

 

[Incenjucar]

Iron Man wizards and Superman sorcerors are both common enough, with a bunch of other types and middle areas too. There's not some one true spellcaster.

 

[Minigiant]

The D&D Wizard is one of the most "D&D" things there is, and that is worth keeping for the D&D game. I like D&D spellcasting and cannot stand spell point casting as a primary mechanic. I also believe that tying primary mechanics to 1-hour short rests has proven to be untenable for the community as a whole, even if some tables have made it work.

Sorcerers and Warlocks have been around in a variety of iterations, and some of the earlier versions didn't get great narrative+mechanical synchronicity, but in 5E there is an opportunity to really glow them up. And that is what I am pulling for. There are too many good mage/caster ideas for them to live in one class or subclass. So I think it is a boon to spread those abilities out into appropriate thematic class and subclass options. This way, those who love Wizards can keep them, those who love Sorcerers can keep them, those who love Warlocks can keep them, and those who love them all, and want them to feel unique from each other, can get their way too.

I still think there is ample opportunity for a Sorcerer to feel different while still using D&D spellcasting. The playtest version is a good first step that can be tweaked further. And though I don't like Short Rest recharges for Warlock spells, after hearing the ideas from other posters here, I also now agree there can be a way to save Pact Magic without tying them to Short Rests as the recharge mechanic.

I'm not saying get rid of the Wizard.

I'm saying the mechanics and core lore of the classic 4 classes: Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, and Wizard

don't match most instances in fantasy, mythology, religion, nor history. They are all pure D&Disms.

The Sorcerer, as well as other classes, should be allowed to match the representations and story found more commonly in fantasy.

The biggest hiccup 5e ran into class wise is trying to fit all kinds of fantasy concepts to D&D shaped holes because they both didn't want to deviate much from tradition nor wanted to create new classes that matched those ideas.

 

[Leatherhead]

Even if the wizard was deleted, the sorcerer would still be redundant. Warlocks fill the "wierd magic" niche far better mechanically, and bards have a better grip on the cha full caster role.

 

[Incenjucar]

"This hole was made for me!"
<image of a wizard trying to cram themselves into a hole clearly shaped like the sorceror the wizard shoved out of the way>

 

[Minigiant]

Even if the wizard was deleted, the sorcerer would still be redundant. Warlocks fill the "wierd magic" niche far better mechanically, and bards have a better grip on the cha full caster role.

Sorcerers aren't weird magic. They are closer to Marvel Mutants whose Mutant power is Magic.

Basically Scarlet Witch.

Like cmon WOTC. Just take all the Xmen and Brotherhood powers and make them Sorcerer unique spells.

If I go a 5e sorcerer pdf on one of them sharing sites. That's likely what I'd make.

"I Twinned Optic Blast the dragon. I got 2 eyes."

 

[Nightfly]

Sorcerer could be worth having as a separate class. It just currently isn't in 5e. Give sorcs more unique spells and mechanics, and make the Sorc subclasses really distinct, and it's all good. Thankfully 1D&D is moving in that direction.

 

[Yaarel]

I view the tropes as:

The Wizard is a Creator = Evocation (Air, Fire, Water), Transmutation (Earth, Plant, Animal), Conjuration (Force), and Illusion.



(I know the Wizard Necromancer is a thing historically in D&D, but instead, I would rather the Warlock and Cleric get all of the necromancy stuff. In this context, "necromancy" includes Undead, Fiend, and Aberration. Typically, the Warlock is bargaining with the necromantic beings and Cleric is combating them, but the reverse can be true.)



The Sorcerer is an Avatar = the incarnation of some planar energy in the flesh

The magic of the Sorcerer is both physically the body itself (bloodline) and one of various planes of existence (Celestial, Mechanus, Elemental Chaos, Shadowfell, or so on). Even the draconic bloodline is a manifestation of the First World and its multiversal dragons, whence the origins of the Material Plane.

Because the Sorcerer is a body, I would like to see it use Constitution for spellcasting. Charisma for self-expression and Constitution for physicality feel the most salient Abilities.

The Sorcerer doesnt gain magic from any creature, but from the plane of existence itself. In a way, a Sorcerer is a personification of that plane.

The spells that a particular Sorcerer has affinity with relates to some aspect of some plane.