The "Superstitious Mumbo Jumbo" Of Dice Rolling

There's a lot of "superstitious mumbo jumbo" (to quote Sir Alec Guiness about The Force in Star Wars') in the world. I take the scientific, naturalistic approach. I don't accept the supernatural as an explanation for anything, so why would I think there can be anything magical or supernatural in dice rolling/games?

There's a lot of "superstitious mumbo jumbo" (to quote Sir Alec Guiness about The Force in Star Wars') in the world. I take the scientific, naturalistic approach. I don't accept the supernatural as an explanation for anything, so why would I think there can be anything magical or supernatural in dice rolling/games?

Photo by Alex Chambers on Unsplash

"You can blow on the dice all you want, but whether they come up 'seven' is still a function of random luck." Barry Ritholtz

How many times do you hear someone say "I'm a bad dice roller," or occasionally, "I'm a good dice roller." This is pure hooey of course: probability governs dice rolling, personal characteristics have nothing to do with it. (Though a few people can consciously control dice when they throw them, which is why you have to throw off a cushion-wall in a casino.) Rather, most people don't understand probability, and some choose poorly about when to rely on the dice, which gives the appearance that there are bad dice rollers or good dice rollers.

Take Dungeons & Dragons for example, or other similar role-playing games. The objective in the game (for most) is to survive, then prosper. Good strategy and tactics in the game is to limit the number of times you have to rely on the dice to bail you out of trouble, and good players do that, while poor players rely on the dice a lot. So of course bad things happen to them following dice rolls. They may get the impression that they are "bad dice rollers", but what they actually are is bad tacticians, or simply unwise. ("He chose . . . poorly" (Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade).)

Let's say there's a chance that you can try periodically in a game to acquire additional assets, but it comes with a risk. One player takes a chance with one sixth likelihood of failure three times; and he/she fails once. Another takes a much worse chance, say a one third chance of failure, and tries six times. They fail twice. The first has failed a little more than average, but only once; the second has failed twice, average, but blames the dice for their greater failure rate (two times instead of one). In reality they only have themselves to blame for relying on the dice, but they turn this into "I've rolled badly." Duh!

If you don't know that there's no such thing as a bad dice roller or a good dice roller, then you probably shouldn't be a game designer, because you won't have a clue about probability. If you want to play games by depending on the dice, more power to you, but you have to understand simple probabilities to design games.

This doesn't stop you from having fun when you play; it doesn't prevent me from "casting spells" with ridiculous magic words (e.g. popocatépetl or ixtaccihuatl) to help someone else playing a game roll well, even though we all know it's ridiculous. It doesn't stop me from advising people to change hands when the rolls aren't going their way. Superstition is common in general, but we all know, or we should know, and I'll occasionally say it even as I indulge in it, this is all BS.

So get a grip on reality: dice are dice, random unless they're weighted unfairly of course, or unless you have a 20 sided die with two 20s and no 1's. (I've got one of those as a lark.) It has to be said though, most commercial hobby dice are likely to have a small bias, the production is just too cheap for anything else. So if someone has a "lucky die," maybe it really is skewed - but then it should be lucky for anyone not just for the owner. Maybe that's why, when somebody owns a "lucky die", they often won't let anybody else roll it.

Reference: "Probability for Game Designers" by James Ernest (Cheap-Ass Games).

contributed by Lewis Pulsipher
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio
I have a die or two that when the players see me pull it out they mumble "The DM is trying to kill us".

There is science to everything. Probability to anything. But its not why we are here. Since people are fond of Star Wars Quotes here.... "Never tell me the odds."
 

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Larrin

Entropic Good
As a Mexican, I have to ask: what do you find ridiculous about popocatépetl and iztacíhuatl?

I can't speak to why he chose those two words specifically, however...

The typical American English speaker will find iztacíhuatl a hard word to pronounce, and when hearing it pronounced correctly (or even incorrectly) will find it intriguing. For example, "izt" is not a combination of letters English ever does. I don't really know the right way to pronounce it. I could guess, but I will have no way of knowing if I'm even close as I have nothing to compare it to. In general its a word that is very exotic to American English.

Popocatépetl is a bit easier to say, or attempt to say at least, but 1) its a bit longer than commonly used English words 2) repetition of the letter 'p'
tends to makes words sound humorous in english.

Essentially, they are words that are different enough from English's standard sound and style that they make for odd and interesting words both written and spoken.
 

Thomas Bowman

First Post
Dice add dramatic tension to the game and force players to manage risk, there are certain tricks that are employed. For example, when player characters are fighting a bunch of opponents, the DM usually assigns a number to each player character, and rolls a die to determine which player character gets attacked by an individual opponent, just to be fair of course. The player characters of course fight more intelligently, that is they all attack on specific opponent until he is dead when they have the initiative, and then they attack another opponent until he is dead, this is to reduce the number of attacks from their opponents that they receive in the next round, which makes survival or the player characters more likely.
 

Everyone I’ve met who’s said they’re a “good dice roller” is more likely just a cheater. No amount of alleged skill or luck can mitigate that sometimes the dice will whiff on a roll. Yet there’s the person that always hits, always succeeds at crucial checks, and always shows up with an 18 in a stat. When no one else can see their rolls, of course.

For my part, I give into dice superstition. I know it’s not really a thing, but it’s like I can’t help it. Red dice roll better, it’s bad luck to let another player touch your dice, and it’s possible for the “luck” to get burned out of a die (especially on the last day of a con).

...or occasionally, "I'm a good dice roller." This is pure hooey of course: probability governs dice rolling, personal characteristics have nothing to do with it.
 

Kobold Boots

Banned
Banned
Never liked the Sir Alec quote. If only because you don't bite the hand that fed you.

As to dice, no die is perfectly weighted to allow for all outcomes to be equally likely on every roll. It's part of the reason why dice get swapped out on tables in every casino I've ever been to. Over time you find the dice that seem to work best for you. I've got a metal d20 that favors the 20 side of the die. All you have to do is load the die with your finger on the 1 when you roll it and the 20 comes up about 15-20 percent of the time.

Regardless of what people may think of that, (rolling a die alone is not cheating) the table calls it the bronze death. To reduce the angst, my rolls are always public and I vary the distance of the roll across the table to accommodate the concern.

If you must feel better about die-buffing (my term for this) just make sure you swap out your D20 every so often so it's not a factor, but that being said, anyone that isn't loading their dice to roll on the favorable axis, is not thinking about how a round die works.
 

Kobold Boots

Banned
Banned
Dice add dramatic tension to the game and force players to manage risk, there are certain tricks that are employed. For example, when player characters are fighting a bunch of opponents, the DM usually assigns a number to each player character, and rolls a die to determine which player character gets attacked by an individual opponent, just to be fair of course. The player characters of course fight more intelligently, that is they all attack on specific opponent until he is dead when they have the initiative, and then they attack another opponent until he is dead, this is to reduce the number of attacks from their opponents that they receive in the next round, which makes survival or the player characters more likely.

You're too kind. :)

I've done this for unintelligent monsters (they attack the closest PC cause they're hungry or aggrieved) but if the group of monsters has at least an average intellect, they're focusing down the softest target or the most aggressive one, first. Combine this with the bronze death from my previous post and muahaahahahahahah*

(* subtitled - manage risk and play smarter by being prepared before combat - fortunately my groups have liked higher death rates over the years)
 



G

Guest 6801328

Guest
Wait...does the misunderstanding/superstition that the OP is trying to counter actually exist among gamers?

Sure, I know players who joke about their special D20, or who blow on their dice for important rolls, but as far as I can tell they are ALWAYS joking, or just signaling to the rest of us that it's an important roll. Kind of like how you might knock on wood to signal non-verbally to somebody else that you are hoping for a result you can't control, even if you don't actually believe that knocking on wood prevents bad luck.
 

biomante

First Post
I can't speak to why he chose those two words specifically, however...

The typical American English speaker will find iztacíhuatl a hard word to pronounce, and when hearing it pronounced correctly (or even incorrectly) will find it intriguing. For example, "izt" is not a combination of letters English ever does. I don't really know the right way to pronounce it. I could guess, but I will have no way of knowing if I'm even close as I have nothing to compare it to. In general its a word that is very exotic to American English.

Popocatépetl is a bit easier to say, or attempt to say at least, but 1) its a bit longer than commonly used English words 2) repetition of the letter 'p'
tends to makes words sound humorous in english.

Essentially, they are words that are different enough from English's standard sound and style that they make for odd and interesting words both written and spoken.

Hello. I get you, I really do. What you say is common sense. But odd and interesting is not the same as ridiculous. The latter is disrespectful. The words he chose are not made-up words, they come from the nahuatl language, one of the many native languages in Mexico. More than 1 million people speak nahuatl nowadays. I don't mock or ridicule cultures different from mine, so I expect to receive the same courtesy.
The meaning of the words are:

Popocatépetl: Smoking mountain
Iztacíhuatl: White woman

They are the names of two volcanoes near Mexico City.
 

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