The "Superstitious Mumbo Jumbo" Of Dice Rolling

There's a lot of "superstitious mumbo jumbo" (to quote Sir Alec Guiness about The Force in Star Wars') in the world. I take the scientific, naturalistic approach. I don't accept the supernatural as an explanation for anything, so why would I think there can be anything magical or supernatural in dice rolling/games?

There's a lot of "superstitious mumbo jumbo" (to quote Sir Alec Guiness about The Force in Star Wars') in the world. I take the scientific, naturalistic approach. I don't accept the supernatural as an explanation for anything, so why would I think there can be anything magical or supernatural in dice rolling/games?

Photo by Alex Chambers on Unsplash

"You can blow on the dice all you want, but whether they come up 'seven' is still a function of random luck." Barry Ritholtz

How many times do you hear someone say "I'm a bad dice roller," or occasionally, "I'm a good dice roller." This is pure hooey of course: probability governs dice rolling, personal characteristics have nothing to do with it. (Though a few people can consciously control dice when they throw them, which is why you have to throw off a cushion-wall in a casino.) Rather, most people don't understand probability, and some choose poorly about when to rely on the dice, which gives the appearance that there are bad dice rollers or good dice rollers.

Take Dungeons & Dragons for example, or other similar role-playing games. The objective in the game (for most) is to survive, then prosper. Good strategy and tactics in the game is to limit the number of times you have to rely on the dice to bail you out of trouble, and good players do that, while poor players rely on the dice a lot. So of course bad things happen to them following dice rolls. They may get the impression that they are "bad dice rollers", but what they actually are is bad tacticians, or simply unwise. ("He chose . . . poorly" (Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade).)

Let's say there's a chance that you can try periodically in a game to acquire additional assets, but it comes with a risk. One player takes a chance with one sixth likelihood of failure three times; and he/she fails once. Another takes a much worse chance, say a one third chance of failure, and tries six times. They fail twice. The first has failed a little more than average, but only once; the second has failed twice, average, but blames the dice for their greater failure rate (two times instead of one). In reality they only have themselves to blame for relying on the dice, but they turn this into "I've rolled badly." Duh!

If you don't know that there's no such thing as a bad dice roller or a good dice roller, then you probably shouldn't be a game designer, because you won't have a clue about probability. If you want to play games by depending on the dice, more power to you, but you have to understand simple probabilities to design games.

This doesn't stop you from having fun when you play; it doesn't prevent me from "casting spells" with ridiculous magic words (e.g. popocatépetl or ixtaccihuatl) to help someone else playing a game roll well, even though we all know it's ridiculous. It doesn't stop me from advising people to change hands when the rolls aren't going their way. Superstition is common in general, but we all know, or we should know, and I'll occasionally say it even as I indulge in it, this is all BS.

So get a grip on reality: dice are dice, random unless they're weighted unfairly of course, or unless you have a 20 sided die with two 20s and no 1's. (I've got one of those as a lark.) It has to be said though, most commercial hobby dice are likely to have a small bias, the production is just too cheap for anything else. So if someone has a "lucky die," maybe it really is skewed - but then it should be lucky for anyone not just for the owner. Maybe that's why, when somebody owns a "lucky die", they often won't let anybody else roll it.

Reference: "Probability for Game Designers" by James Ernest (Cheap-Ass Games).

contributed by Lewis Pulsipher
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio
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He meant ridiculous in the sense that it will sound made-up to most* people at the table. Those words are both unknown and will sound exotic to many English speakers, which makes them great candidates to replace "Abracadabra", which itself has become too much of a cliché.

It would tend to spoil the dramatic moment were the villain to say "ABRACADABRA!" But "Popocatépetl!" might be suitably intimidating. Even though it's a "ridiculous" word for most English speakers.

*And maybe that's not true for most people at your table, but apparently it is for his. So chill.
 

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biomante

First Post
He meant ridiculous in the sense that it will sound made-up to most* people at the table. Those words are both unknown and will sound exotic to many English speakers, which makes them great candidates to replace "Abracadabra", which itself has become too much of a cliché.

It would tend to spoil the dramatic moment were the villain to say "ABRACADABRA!" But "Popocatépetl!" might be suitably intimidating. Even though it's a "ridiculous" word for most English speakers.

*And maybe that's not true for most people at your table, but apparently it is for his. So chill.

Look, my intention is not to start an online argument just for the sake of it. And I don't really think I am being a troll. I understand what you say (I was really following your reasons... until the end, when you told me to chill, that was just condescending and a bit imperative). Nop, I won't chill just because someone tells me is not important or serious that someone ridiculed one of my languages. I suppose is not important, it is just an obscure forum related to a kind of obscure hobby, no big deal.
But that is how it starts, by accepting these little bits, serious things (like xenophobia, misogyny, etc) get normalized eventually. As I said, I don't ridicule other people's cultures, so I expect the same thing. It is just civil.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
I can't speak to why he chose those two words specifically, however...

The typical American English speaker will find iztacíhuatl a hard word to pronounce, and when hearing it pronounced correctly (or even incorrectly) will find it intriguing. For example, "izt" is not a combination of letters English ever does. I don't really know the right way to pronounce it. I could guess, but I will have no way of knowing if I'm even close as I have nothing to compare it to. In general its a word that is very exotic to American English.

Popocatépetl is a bit easier to say, or attempt to say at least, but 1) its a bit longer than commonly used English words 2) repetition of the letter 'p'
tends to makes words sound humorous in english.

Essentially, they are words that are different enough from English's standard sound and style that they make for odd and interesting words both written and spoken.

He meant ridiculous in the sense that it will sound made-up to most* people at the table. Those words are both unknown and will sound exotic to many English speakers, which makes them great candidates to replace "Abracadabra", which itself has become too much of a cliché.

It would tend to spoil the dramatic moment were the villain to say "ABRACADABRA!" But "Popocatépetl!" might be suitably intimidating. Even though it's a "ridiculous" word for most English speakers.

*And maybe that's not true for most people at your table, but apparently it is for his. So chill.

Biomante was right to call OP on using indigenous words as "ridiculous". I'm not Mexican, I'm not offended, but I am embarrassed. Using the languages of others as "made-up", "ridiculous", or "nonsense" words is not cool, it's racist. I'm sure OP isn't an overly racist person, no more or less than anyone else, and I'm sure they didn't intend offense . . . . but offense was legitimately taken and the best response is "Oh, sorry, I didn't realize, I'll be more careful in the future."
 

Kobold Boots

Banned
Banned
As a Mexican, I have to ask: what do you find ridiculous about popocatépetl and iztacíhuatl?

No, you really don't have to ask. You just need to look at how the words were used in context and not get yourself in a bunch over it unless it's appropriate to do so.

The words themselves were not called "ridiculous", the use in context of magic was.

Be well
KB
 

Kobold Boots

Banned
Banned
Look, my intention is not to start an online argument just for the sake of it. And I don't really think I am being a troll. I understand what you say (I was really following your reasons... until the end, when you told me to chill, that was just condescending and a bit imperative). Nop, I won't chill just because someone tells me is not important or serious that someone ridiculed one of my languages. I suppose is not important, it is just an obscure forum related to a kind of obscure hobby, no big deal.
But that is how it starts, by accepting these little bits, serious things (like xenophobia, misogyny, etc) get normalized eventually. As I said, I don't ridicule other people's cultures, so I expect the same thing. It is just civil.

I hear what you're saying about ridicule of cultures but..

1. For the sake of argument, you're annoyed by the use of words in a context you're taking them in.
2. You do not know for certain if that was the person's intention. In fact, it's likely it wasn't.
3. Again for the sake of the argument, you're annoyed, because of your own interpretation.
4. So if anything was disrespectful here that's absolutely certain, its your own feelings about how your culture is perceived.

Now I'll admit to being the whitest of white guys, pure blooded Scot.. if the OP had said "haggis, haggis, haggis" I would have understood him properly and not been annoyed at all. Same with anything else in the language unless he was getting antagonistic and it was obvious.

Suggestion would be to contact the person via PM if it's a problem, just to figure out where he's coming from. If he's a dink, then do what you have to do publicly.

Be well
KB
 



jrowland

First Post
The thing about probability is that it's true for sufficiently large data sets, over time. On a short time scale, with a small data set, you can have a phenomenal run or a poor run and still the probabilities remain true in the larger (data set, time) context.

In other words, mean reversion always returns to the 5% chance for any particular number of a d20, but you can roll 4 20's in a row (0.000625% chance). I'm sure many of us have seen it. We've probably seen over 10000 rolls of a d20 to make it statistically 'true' as well. It doesn't mean that 'magic' moment of witnessing that epic run of rolls is any less memorable!
 

biomante

First Post
I hear what you're saying about ridicule of cultures but..

1. For the sake of argument, you're annoyed by the use of words in a context you're taking them in.
2. You do not know for certain if that was the person's intention. In fact, it's likely it wasn't.
3. Again for the sake of the argument, you're annoyed, because of your own interpretation.
4. So if anything was disrespectful here that's absolutely certain, its your own feelings about how your culture is perceived.

Now I'll admit to being the whitest of white guys, pure blooded Scot.. if the OP had said "haggis, haggis, haggis" I would have understood him properly and not been annoyed at all. Same with anything else in the language unless he was getting antagonistic and it was obvious.

Suggestion would be to contact the person via PM if it's a problem, just to figure out where he's coming from. If he's a dink, then do what you have to do publicly.

Be well
KB

OK, Kobold Boots, as I said I don't want to start an argument, or a forum fight. I mentioned something that caught my attention, and I think that I have the right to question something I don't agree with. That is the whole reason for online forums to exist, I believe. If you see my posts, I am not irrational, or aggressive, nor I resort to the use of insults.
I understand that sometimes we are just having a bad day, and we use the opportunity to lash out. But I think, most of times, our first response to something we don't agree with is the most honest in relation to who we are. I applaud your restrain in editing one of your last posts. I assume that you had seconds thoughts, and believed it was not very civil. Or maybe you just didn't want to get in trouble with the mods. Unfortunately, the email notifications that you get when someone replies to you in a forum are sent immediately, without the benefit of editing. So I received your unmodified initial answer.
If you don't agree with me, fine, it is not compulsory to share anyone's opinions, but don't tell me that I started some crap (your word) just because I am concerned with something said about my language. That is definitely not OK. You said you are tired of race-based discussions (actually it was related most to language, and its irresponsible uses), and that you are part of the community that is tired of everything being a race or culture fest. Well, welcome to the internet, it is a global and multicultural community, and you will find that RPGs are played all around the planet, by people from a lot of cultures. That is just a fact.
If you don't like my posts, I quote you: Welcome to ignore.

Be at peace.

Here I will post your whole unmodified post, just in the spirit of transparency, so it can't be said that I am making things up:

No, you really don't have to ask. You just need to look at how the words were used in context and not get yourself in a bunch over it unless it's appropriate to do so.

The words themselves were not called "ridiculous", the use in context of magic was.

Welcome to ignore, because well, I'm tired of race-based discussions unless they're in a topic that's appropriate for it. Starting this crap earns you the spot. (Just like my reply here likely only makes things worse - but I'm a member of the part of the community that is tired of everything being a race or culture fest.)

Be well
KB
 

Kobold Boots

Banned
Banned
OK, Kobold Boots, as I said I don't want to start an argument, or a forum fight. I mentioned something that caught my attention, and I think that I have the right to question something I don't agree with. That is the whole reason for online forums to exist, I believe. If you see my posts, I am not irrational, or aggressive, nor I resort to the use of insults.
I understand that sometimes we are just having a bad day, and we use the opportunity to lash out. But I think, most of times, our first response to something we don't agree with is the most honest in relation to who we are. I applaud your restrain in editing one of your last posts. I assume that you had seconds thoughts, and believed it was not very civil. Or maybe you just didn't want to get in trouble with the mods. Unfortunately, the email notifications that you get when someone replies to you in a forum are sent immediately, without the benefit of editing. So I received your unmodified initial answer.
If you don't agree with me, fine, it is not compulsory to share anyone's opinions, but don't tell me that I started some crap (your word) just because I am concerned with something said about my language. That is definitely not OK. You said you are tired of race-based discussions (actually it was related most to language, and its irresponsible uses), and that you are part of the community that is tired of everything being a race or culture fest. Well, welcome to the internet, it is a global and multicultural community, and you will find that RPGs are played all around the planet, by people from a lot of cultures. That is just a fact.
If you don't like my posts, I quote you: Welcome to ignore.

Be at peace.

Here I will post your whole unmodified post, just in the spirit of transparency, so it can't be said that I am making things up:

No, you really don't have to ask. You just need to look at how the words were used in context and not get yourself in a bunch over it unless it's appropriate to do so.

The words themselves were not called "ridiculous", the use in context of magic was.

Welcome to ignore, because well, I'm tired of race-based discussions unless they're in a topic that's appropriate for it. Starting this crap earns you the spot. (Just like my reply here likely only makes things worse - but I'm a member of the part of the community that is tired of everything being a race or culture fest.)

Be well
KB

Hi Bio -

1. I take full responsibility for my initial post. You'll note that it does not note that it was edited. This is as you surmise because I changed it within a minute of posting it. I did have second thoughts about how I worded things. Nothing at the end of the message helped the main point.

2. I did not realize, again as you already surmised that the emails would come to you unedited, but that's simply my own forgetfulness as I've run VBulletin before and should know better. To be completely honest, I forgot about the email notification at the time.

3. While I respect the mods and have had good interactions with them, I don't do things to appease people. I edited things because you didn't deserve to be spoken to that way and I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Last, as my unedited post stated quite well, I do campaign against unnecessary discussion of racial bias. While some cultures have well documented and extreme cases of oppression and I'm all for striving for equality, I really don't think that racial bias is appropriate for discussion in threads that have no racial overtones as part of their general topic.

I apologize for the message you received. You never should have received it and I never should have written the last few lines of it. Lack of maturity on my part. I'm sorry.

The message remains though.

No, you really didn't have to ask about the racial intent. What was written was entirely appropriate if taken in the context of inappropriate things within magical incantations. Anything racially/culturally inappropriate in your opinion is largely so because of the lens you're looking at it through.

If anything can be gleaned from how you dealt with me, my opinion would be you're a bit high strung. Takes one to know one. I'm just on the other end of the spectrum.

Be well
KB
 

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