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The vampire county

Chimera

First Post
Daytime is not always "safe". Overcast days are the Vampire's delight. Depending on the climate, that could be a lot of the time. Think of a place like Seattle or a small village higher up on a mountain. There could be a lot of DAYS when it isn't safe to be outside.

But that's assuming a HOSTILE Vampire, which is entirely unnecessary.


The bottom line is that one vampire can easily control any small village. They're not going to burn it down (you don't savagely attack your own herd of cattle!), they're not going to run everyone off. Terror is not the ideal. Fear is. You don't want the entire countryside so utterly terrified that they all run off or do everything they can to destroy you.

You want CATTLE.

Charmed minions among the townsfolk (some open, most covert) would be another way of maintaining control. They don't have to mindlessly attack any dissent, they only have to "try to maintain calm", "order" and suggest that certain efforts are useless and/or too dangerous. When those few who go against these ideas constantly meet ill fates, the general atmosphere will eventually turn into fatalistic acceptance.

As for the Con drain, you don't necessarily need to drain anyone to death on a regular basis. Having a lot of people weakened would actually help you out. They're less able to resist. Thus people might encounter an entire village of sickly looking people, who then would be very happy to see new faces to be fed on instead of them.

Looking at fairy tales tells us that strangers/travelers are easy prey. They have no local family to exact revenge and they can often disappear without a trace without causing any lasting issues for the community. Especially one controlled by the Vampire's minions.

From the Vampire's point of view, Adventurers are like wandering game animals. Fresh meat that they can take without detracting from their established cattle herd. It's actually beneficial to kill them off because then they don't 'infect' your herd with ideas or lead to the loss of 'animals' by leading any of them off.
 

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Sejs

First Post
Stormrunner said:
Or worse yet, they ARE coming back ...

"Looook me in the eeeeyyyes, huuumaaaannn..."


Oh my god! My sheep is back ... as the living dead!



... Er, anything that sheep says is a damn lie! :p
 

Agent Oracle

First Post
Nyeshet said:
I think you've covered it remarkably well. The only real option a vampire has at this point is perhaps setting one of the houses on fire or tricking a child into allowing them entrance. A vampire could still rather easily slay the village - just set fire to their crops once they are nearly ready to harvest. Do this a couple years in a row and the old, young, and infirm will start dying rather regularly. After two - three years the populace will be eatting leaves and dying daily. This presumes, however, that the vampire wishes to slay them all. Really, they just need a source of blood every now and then.

Ahh, but this requires the vampire to get close to ANOTHER thing vampires can't stand... Fire. Makes it significantly harder to burn out the villagers. Plus, Vampires have one other problem: various authors ascribe different feeding requirements to them. Anne Rice makes 'em almost blood-independant (Almost mind you. The older ones seem to be bone-dry most of the time.) But other books need them to take three meals a day, just like any mortal. So killing off their primary food source is ill-advised at best, and suicidal at worst.

Strike that. I just re-read the SRD, and the Vampire causes Con drain. So it seems that the vampire, if it needs more than 1 Con drained a day, would require at least one humanoid every ten days (36-37 every year) to feed itself. A small village can't support that. A large village or small town might be able to support that, but I think you would really need a small city / large town to realistically support the vampire, as you will likely have someone vanishing every week - if not twice a week.

Well, there's also the possibility of the Vampire feeding off of livestock (referring to V:tM we have vamps feeding on rats, dogs and whatnot)which could result in the vampire draining chickens Dry (in an unsatisfactory feeding, humanoid blood is SO much more flavorful) Since chickens, rabbits, and whatever other animals there may be out there breed much, MUCH faster than humans, there is a significant decrease in the number of victims that need to be inhumed each year. A well-prepared village might loose only one or two victims a season...
 

Nyeshet

First Post
There was a vampire thread last halloween . . .

. . . and I kept my reply to it. It was covering the various powers of the legendary vampire and comparing them with what the vampire is given in D&D. I will sblock it below, as I think it is informative enough to perhaps aid this thread as well.

[sblock="Dracula, page 261 - 264"]
There are such beings as vampires; some of us have evidence that they exist. [. . . snip . . .] The nosferatu do not die like the bee when he sting once. He is only stronger; and being stronger, have yet more power to work evil. This vampire which is amongst us is of himself so strong in person as twenty men; he is of cunning more than mortal, for his cunning be the growth of ages; he have still the aids of necromancy, which is, as his etymology imply, the divination by the dead, and all the dead that he can come nigh to are for him at command; he is a brute, and more than brute; he is devil in callous, and the heart of him is not; he can, within limitaitons, appear at the will when, and where, and in any of the forms that are to him; he can, within his range, direct the elements: the storm, the fog, the thunder; he can command all the meaner things: the rat, and the owl, and the bat - the moth, and the fox, and the wolf; he can grow and become small; and he can at times vanish and come unknown. How then are we to begin our strife to destroy him? How shall we find his where; and having found it, how can we destroy?

My friends, this is much; it is a terrible task that we undertake, and there may be consequence to make the brave shudder. For if we fail in this our fight he must surely win: and then where end we? Life is nothings! I heed him not. But to fail here is not mere life or death. It is that we become as him; that we henceforward become foul things of the night like him - without heart or conscience, preying on the bodies and the souls of those we love best. To us for ever are the gates of heaven shut; [. . . snip . . .]

Now let us see how far the general powers arrayed against us are restrict, and how the individual cannot. In fine, let us consider the limitations of the vampire in general, and of this one in particular. [. . . snip . . .] The vampire live on, and cannot die by mere passing of the time; he can flourish when that he can fatten on the blood of the living. Even more, we have seen amongst us that he can grow younger; that his vital faculties grow strenuous, and seem as though they refresh themselves when his special pabulum is plenty. But he cannot flourish without this diet; he eat not as others. Even friend Jonathan, who lived with him for weeks, did never see him to eat, never! He throws no shadow; he make in the mirror no reflect, as again Jonathan observe. He has the strength of many in his hand - witness again Jonathan when he shut the door against the wolfs, and when he help him from the diligence too. He can transform himself to wolf, as we gather from the ship arrival at Whitby, when he tear open the dog; he can be as bat [. . . snip . . .].

He can come in mist which he create - that noble ship's captain proved him of this; but, from what we know, the distance he can make this mist is limited, and it can only be round himself. He come on moonlight rays as elemental dust - as again Jonathan saw those sisters in the castle of Dracula. He become so small - we ourselves saw Miss Lucy, ere she was at peace, slip through a hair-breadth space at the tomb door. He can, when once he find his way, come out from anything or into anything, no matter how close it be bound or even fused up with fire - solder you call it. He can see in the dark - no small power this, in a world which is one half shut from the light. [. . . snip . . .]

He may not enter anywhere at the first, unless there be someone of the household who bid him to come; thought afterwards he may come as he please. His power ceases, as does that of all eviel things, at the coming of the day. Only at certain times can he have limited freedom. If he be not at the place whither he is bound, he can only change himself at noon* or at exact sunrise or sunset. These things are we told, and in this record of ours we have proof by inference. Thus, whereas he can do as he will within his limit, when he have his earth-home, his coffin-home, his hell-home, this place unhallowed, as we saw when he went to the grave of the suicide at Whit by; still at the other time he can only change when the time come. It is said, too, that he can only pass running water at the slack or the flood of the tide.

Then there are things which so afflict him that he has no power, as the garlic that we know of, and as for things sacred, as this symbol, my crucifix [. . . snip . . .] to them he is nothing, but in their presense he take his place far off and silent with respect. There are others, too, which I shall tell you of, lest in our seeking we may need them. The branch of the wild rose on his coffin keep him that he move not from it; a sacred bullet fired into the coffin kill him so that he be true dead; and as for the stake through him, we know already of its peace; or the cut-off head that giveth rest. We have seen it with our eyes.

Thus when we find the habitation of this man-that-was, we can confine him to his coffin and destroy him, if we obey what we know.
[/sblock]

[sblock="My Reply"]Okay, looking over Dracula (pg 261 - 4, out of the 418 in my copy) the powers of the vampire are as follows:

- "the aids of necromancy, . . . , the divination by the dead" (speak with dead, I presume, although it could mean the reading of the entrails of the recently slain for all I know - it just refers to it as necromancy)

- "all the dead that he can come nigh to are for him at command" (animate dead? or does it simply mean other vampires, those created by the vampire?)

- "strong as twenty men" (justification for a great increase in the Str score)

- "cunning more than mortal, for his cunning is the growth of ages" (hmm, perhaps the Int and Wis scores should not be increased; instead they increase naturally with age, but the physical penalties are not gained, and the increases to mental ability scores continue to increase - say +2 per century or +1 per 50 years?)

- "he can, within limitaitons, appear at the will when, and where, and in any of the forms that are to him" (dimension door? I refuse to even suggest attributing Teleport without Error to a Vampire! )

- "he can, within his range, direct the elements: the storm, the fog, the thunder" (obscuring mist or fog; storm of vengence or control weather?)

- "he can command all the meaner things: the rat, and the owl, and the bat - the moth, and the fox, and the wolf" (the 'children of the night' special ability; note that these forms are attributed to vampires as well, but Dracula seemed limited - or perhaps merely partial to - the wolf and the bat)

- "he can grow and become small" (enlarge and reduce person? actaully, other text makes the latter far superior to reduce person - more akin to shrink object upon a person! )

- "he can at times vanish and come unknown" (invisibility? or dimension door again? not quite gaseous form)

- "he can grow younger; that his vital faculties grow strenuous, and seem as though they refresh themselves when his special pabulum is plenty" (fast healing? youthful appearance - the lack of age penalties? but, no, it is the drinking of blood that does this, suggesting temp (or non-temp) hp gain from this (rather than from negative levels); of course the idea of a vampire actually losing age penalties (if he already had them) due to drinking blood is an interesting thought)

- "he cannot flourish without this diet; he eat not as others. Even friend Jonathan, who lived with him for weeks, did never see him to eat, never!" (interesting, many vampire concepts these days suggest that they can eat as normal but they gain no sustanence from it; this suggests they cannot even eat typical foods - a fact that may alert the wary who witness it, supposing they do not presume he eats elsewhere / elsewhen)

- "he throws no shadow; he make in the mirror no reflect" (shadow and reflection were tied to the idea of soul in that time period, so having neither suggests a lack of soul)

- "he has the strength of many in his hand - witness again Jonathan when he shut the door against the wolfs" (high Str score, as already stated above)

- "he can transform himself to wolf; he can be as bat" (also as already stated above)

- "he can come in mist which he create, . . . but, from what we know, the distance he can make this mist is limited, and it can only be round himself. He come on moonlight rays as elemental dust" (it is interesting that the vampire does not become the mist he creates, rather he can become as dust - which is a separate ability it seems; of course, if the vampire used gaseous form after having used obscuring mist - and then dragged the obscuring mist with him, it could well seem that he came out of such - perhaps dimension door is not needed; or perhaps the coming as dust upon moonlight is a poetic referrence to a dimension door style ability)

- "he become so small - we ourselves saw Miss Lucy, ere she was at peace, slip through a hair-breadth space at the tomb door" (again a referrence to becoming the size of an insect; movies dramaticize this as becoming mist, but it seems they actually can briefly change their size while maintaining a recognizable form; interesting)

- "he can, when once he find his way, come out from anything or into anything, no matter how close it be bound or even fused up with fire - solder you call it" (pass wall or dimension door; note that it ties in with below on when / where he can enter a place)

- "he can see in the dark - no small power this, in a world which is one half shut from the light" (dark vision)

- "he may not enter anywhere at the first, unless there be someone of the household who bid him to come; though afterwards he may come as he please" (this is a major consideration; invited once - by anyone within the building, he can after come and go as he pleases, even if no longer invited; some descriptions I've heard suggest he must be invited each time, but this is not the case. If the great-great-great grandfather invited him in over a century or two ago, the current owner is not safe to assume the vampire cannot enter - assuming he even knows about the invite.)

- "his power ceases, as does that of all evil things, at the coming of the day. Only at certain times can he have limited freedom. If he be not at the place whither he is bound, he can only change himself at noon** or at exact sunrise or sunset. (** I presume Mr Stoker meant midnight, as Dracula is in a stupor during the noon hour.)

- "whereas he can do as he will within his limit, when he have his earth-home, his coffin-home, his hell-home, this place unhallowed, as we saw when he went to the grave of the suicide; still at the other time he can only change when the time come. It is said, too, that he can only pass running water at the slack or the flood of the tide." (so he can only use his greater powers - such as transformation - while within his coffin or in an unhallowed place; most grave sites of suicides and murderous criminals were thought to be innately unhallowed - especially since, being mortal sinners, they were almost never buried in the hallowed / church-overseen graveyard. So the prohibition against running water is as nought when the tide is at its highest or lowest; interesting, not quite what I thought it was)

- "there are things which so afflict him that he has no power, as the garlic that we know of, and as for things sacred [. . . snip . . .] to them he is nothing, but in their presense he take his place far off and silent with respect. (interesting way to say they hold the vampire back)

- "There are others, too, which I shall tell you of, lest in our seeking we may need them. The branch of the wild rose on his coffin keep him that he move not from it; a sacred bullet fired into the coffin kill him so that he be true dead; and as for the stake through him, we know already of its peace; or the cut-off head that giveth rest. (The blest bullet bit is a surprise, but note that it is only effective while the vampire is in its coffin. Like the stake, it may be considered temporary - if, for instance, the vampire's corpse were later removed from the coffin . . . the rose branch is a surprise, but it likely is due to the strong and pleasing scent of the rose - as with garlic the strong scent overcomes the scent of filth, illness, and death - thus alluding to the connection between vampire symbolism and the medical knowledge of the time on disease - or rather the lack thereof)
[/sblock]
 

Endur

First Post
I think the village defenses are pretty good. People make mistakes, so sooner or later, the vampire will feed.

But I agree with the other posters, that the vampire doesn't necessarily want to feed on the villagers .. the vampire would prefer to feed on travelers, adventurers, and other strangers that can go missing with no one the wiser.
 

Nyeshet

First Post
True, I think the vampire and villagers both would prefer for travellers to go missing rather than villagers. :)

However, I also think that a vampire's blood draining should - for 'realistic' reasons (and, yes, I know how absurb it sounds to use that excuse when discussing vampires :uhoh: :D ) - be changed to con damage rather than con drain. At that point the legend of a vampire preying upon a village becomes much more playable. A small village can 'realistically' say it has been dealing with the vampire for years and lost several of its members to the beast - all while still having maintained a somewhat lower than normal population for a village of its size, location, and health.

If an attack is occuring every other night, and the victim is left to live (say only 4-5 Con damaged) then a village of even only a 80-100 individuals might survive without loss of life for years (so long as a week or two separate the times between feeding on the same victim). With Con drain that is impossible - even if only 1 Con is drained per night (or even every other night). Within four - five years everyone is dead, perhaps even after as little as two - three years.
 

Endur

First Post
Libris Mortis talks about undead hungers by using two descriptions, Inescapable Craving and Diet Dependent. LM actually applies both descriptions to vampires, Inescapable Craving for Life Force (energy drain) and Diet Dependent (blood/con drain).

With Diet Dependence for blood drain, a vampire could drain blood once a week and be ok.

With Inescapable Craving for Life Force, a vampire would want to drain life force every day.

Inescapable Craving does not sound like the careful vampire we are talking about, but diet dependence could be a careful vampire that hunts a village over time.

Assuming that our vampire does not suffer from inescapable craving, but does blood drain (d4 con) on one villager a week... one villager a month dies ... that's a dozen villagers a year. And less than a dozen if the vampire manages to bite some travelers and strangers.
 

Sejs

First Post
Endur said:
Inescapable Craving does not sound like the careful vampire we are talking about, but diet dependence could be a careful vampire that hunts a village over time.

I could definitely see a wily diet dependent vampire working to activly cultivate and make prosperous the village it was feeding from, in order to maximize his food supply and make it more sustainable.

I'd also like to second the idea of having the blood drinking do con damage rather than drain. Drain would indicate you'd never recover from it... which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, frankly. It's blood. You eventually replenish it.
 

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