Theocracy vs. Magocracy: who would win?

[Tarin Greenflame]

The battle is lopsided to begin with. Theocracy has 3 classes, Magocracy has 2. Magocracy could have bards as their hybrid rank, since the theocracy has paladins. How do you think the odds would be, then, with it being a little more balanced? Also don't forget that mages can buff too =p But the Magocracy still has no form of ressurection.

 

[Drakmar]

The Magocracy would win.. Because the Wizards are clever.. they use their powerful magics to decimate the higher level clerics first and work their way down, while their figthers delay the Theocracy's warriors. Then they nuke the fighters from air. Badda boom.. Mages win.

Of course.. this would all depend on what started it and how much forewarning their was. If the mages started it, they would have carefully planned it, and set themselves up with lotsa wands and so on. If the Theocracy started it...well all might be different.

also... the roll and role of the dice would play a deciding factor.

 

[uv23]

Cool feedback so far I'm surprised how many people think the theocracy would win.

 

[Gargoyle]

Even if the magocracy had wizards, bards, and sorcerers (and both sides have fighters) my money's on the theocracy. For the reasons Axiomatic Unicorn gave.

Clerics may not have the variety of firepower that mages do, but they're not too bad in the combat dept, and will simply outlast everyone.

Of course, the mages have a chance. They'll have to win quickly though...

 

[reiella]

Whichever side won initiative on casting Wish/Miracle .

Couple notes. Magocracy more likly to have expendable magic items and such at hand (bonus feats for wizards at least).

Magocracy also able to provide some greater utility (Fly, Haste, Teleporting spells).

Magocracy would also typically have stronger crowd suppression spells (Storm of Vengeance typically being the exception and also depending on the domains of the clerics).

Magocracy also has typically better access to charm etc spells which can really skew a battlefield, although there are protection spells.

That said, I'm a mage lover too .

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

All other things being equal, my money's on the theocracy.

Assuming the gods stay out of it, my money's still on the theocracy.

Here's my reasoning:

1. Would you rather adventure in a party without a wizard or a party without a cleric?

2. The primary ability of the mageocracy is intelligence so they'll be able to come up with some creative plans and good analysis of situations. However, the primary ability of clerics is wisdom which means that they will be able to pick the most advantageous alternative available to them. They will be more likely than the wizards to see through their opponent's deceptions as well.

3. Clerics and paladins typically make more dynamic leaders than wizards or fighters. Charisma is a dump score for wizards and fighters. Clerics and paladins tend to have above average charisma. This would probably translate into higher morale and better discipline (since paladins would provide a good example to their troops and would also be more inspiring when convincing them to put their lives on the line) in their armies.

4. Did I mention that diplomacy is a class skill for clerics and paladins? This is likely to result in more harmonious and productive discussions among the leadership and will probably make outside forces more likely to support the theocracy. Granted, the wizards have charms and dominates but most rulers in a fantasy realm are well protected against such effects. (And some clerical domains grant similar spells).

5. The best clerical summoning spells are much easier and less time consuming to cast (compare the planar ally spells to planar binding spells--no preparation, lengthy rituals, risky circle inscribing, additional spells (dimensional anchor) or anything else is required for the planar ally series. Payment is required by both but beings summoned by planar binding are more likely to ask for payment in advance).

6. Clerical spells are really quite effective in the direct damage department (burning hands and produce flame (fire domain), sound burst, blade barrier, briar web, spiritual weapon, storm of vengeance, searing light, and flame strike, Holy Word, firestorm, symbol, control weather) although they're admittedly inferior to wizard spells. On the other hand, clerics have better (IMHO) buffing spells (bless, prayer, heroes' feast, shield of law, spell immunity), undisputed mastery of healing spells, and a better spread of divination spells (augury and divination--plus access to detect thoughts through the knowledge domain).

7. Harm (Mass heal isn't half bad either).

 

[Falcon]

After being involved in a battle to save a town, with a 15th lvl cleric and his cohorts on our side vs. an evil mage and his minions, I'd say theocracy hands down. Massive damage, massive healing, protection, morale, and more. WOW!!!!

 

[Chun-tzu]

All things being equal, it depends on the level of magic involved. The higher level magic that's available, the more the advantage swings toward the magocracy. If the wizards are throwing around a ton of mass combat magic, then they'll win through superior firepower. The magocracy also has the advantage with any kind of unorthodox combat, like guerilla warfare. Clerics and paladins are best in direct combat scenarios. Without a lot of high level magic available, the theocracy wins hands down. Why? Because they have magic healing (d'uh).

 

[LostSoul]

This would probably translate into higher morale and better discipline (since paladins would provide a good example to their troops and would also be more inspiring when convincing them to put their lives on the line) in their armies.

Heh. Mages could take care of this with the 1st level Hypnotism spell. Just take each platoon of troops and zap them with the suggestion to "follow your leader" when they hear the trigger word. If you don't have enough 1st-level mages, you can gather some wands and hand them out to the Rogues.

I think the biggest boon the mages have is Teleport.

 

[Darklone]

Hmmm

Interesting question.

Most guys answered with D&D rules in the head.

Another approach: It's a full scale war. War is all about logistics and support of the population. Wizards are not very likely to be respected and loved rulers... While clerics and a church tends to motivate the populace.

I think wizards will be at an advantage concerning transports and similar things, but the clerics will have the peoples support in the long run. If the wizards aren't very high leveled (which would mean they can wage war ALONE with a lot of undeads, summoned monsters, demons and stuff)

my vote goes for the priests.