Three new Star Wars movies

[Ruin Explorer]

This Gen-Xer would like you to stop placing that at the feet of an entire generation.

I mean, let's be clear, this is not an "all Gen Xers" issue. It's a small, loud minority. If the shoe doesn't fit, you must acquit! Yourself of being a bad Star Wars fan that is!

But to make the appeal-to-authority/guardianship argument of "I saw it the cinema as a kid", you do necessarily have to be a Gen Xer. And that's what the person I was replying to did.

And it's only certain Gen Xers who have "made the double" here, in being both outraged by the Prequel trilogy and outraged by the Sequel trilogy. It's also been pretty funny to see that, as the PT was gradually rehabilitated by younger Millennials and Filoni (himself just barely Gen-X), that a lot of the exact people who had been saying it was "the end of Star Wars" suddenly didn't think it was that bad.

But point taken, and apologies to the majority of Gen-Xers who aren't being like that (like @Ryujin and yourself).

The emperor coming back as a clone on a hidden planet where he stockpiled a massive fleet for his return is a straight ripoff of Dark Empire, the dumbest and most notorious of all EU storylines.
They decided they don't want the EU because they strive for higher quality and then they just adapt the worst of the EU for their main line movies?

To be fair, that's because Disney fired Trevorrow (exactly why remains unclear*), and then Abrams had to scramble like hell to get a third movie together on short notice, so presumably wasn't exactly going with the best material.

But Filoni and others have been pretty aggressive in recanonizing certain elements of the EU.

Just not the really, really dumb ones, like the Sun Crusher. I don't even know if Abrams knew the Star Wars EU well enough to steal these elements, or if someone just suggested them to him.

Star Wars was never intended to be "real science fiction", it was intended to be mythic fantasy with a sci-fi reskin.

I feel like Lucas would actually disagree with you. I think thought you could have your cake and eat it there, and I think the Prequel trilogy attempting to both make things have both potentially scientific explanations and fantastical ones (midichlorians + virgin birth, for example), is a good demonstration.

But really, that horse bolted some time in the 1980s. WEG Star Wars, for example, is very closely aligned with Andor in how it sees the Star Wars world, as are a number of the 1980s EU books (including the Han Solo ones that I read).

Might Andor have been even better as a Blake's 7 reboot? Maybe, but it worked in Star Wars, and to suggest it didn't is basically to say WEG Star Wars didn't work, and that, my friend, is real heresy.

* = If they fired him for having a terrible script - and they probably did - I think they maybe made a mistake, because his script was marginally, marginally less terrible than TRoS, and I feel very confidant in saying it would have reviewed better and made more money than TRoS.

 

[billd91]

There's a reason no one is doing "Hitler: The Wonder Years" or "Becoming Jeffrey Dahmer" as movies.

If one had to tell this story, Annakin shouldn't have been the POV character and George Lucas definitely shouldn't have been the scriptwriter.

You definitely have a point. Starting Anakin out as a helpful moppet and turning him into a genocidal serial killer of epic proportions is a quite a slog. That Dark Side of the Force must be one helluva drug.

 

[Zardnaar]

The emperor coming back as a clone on a hidden planet where he stockpiled a massive fleet for his return is a straight ripoff of Dark Empire, the dumbest and most notorious of all EU storylines.
They decided they don't want the EU because they strive for higher quality and then they just adapt the worst of the EU for their main line movies?

Dark Empire was one of the first EU works after the initial run in 80's.

After the PT they could have tied it to that and done a better job of Palpatines return than Dark Empire.

Dark Empire wasn't the worst of the EU and compared to RoS it was a masterpiece.

And it made more sense than TLJ and actually explained stuff including how to polish off Palpatine permanently.

I woukdntbhave resurrected Palpatine, Plageous maybe to tie it back to the PT.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think Rise of Skywalker used Last Jedi mostly as the thing that needed correcting. I think Disney looked at the decline in box office from Force to Last and made a panic call (that completely backfired when you look at the box office of Rise). Everything that made Last Jedi interesting was canceled, and instead we got a movie pitched at giving fan service to the complainers and ultimately satisfying no one.

Last Jedi brought in some key ideas, the most important of which was it doesn't all have to be about these royal Jedi families. That had immense promise for the future of the franchise, because it basically democratized Star Wars (thus, the final shot of the force-sensitive poor kid). It held out the possibility of future stories that weren't just the same thing over and over.

It kind of reminded me of what Spiderverse did - holding out the possibility that anyone can be Spiderman and have interesting stories to tell.

But then Rise said "nope. It's just about the same characters as it always was, Rey's a Palpatine but an adoptive Skywalker and we will just keep hitting the same story beats forever." I'm tired of it. When I watched Solo, I knew every story beat before it happened, often even the dialogue (when we watched it in the theatre, my spouse later told me I was muttering "don't say it" right before the Imperial "gives" Han his last name, possibly the stupidest Easter egg in the history of Easter eggs). Rise was that turned all the way up. A lot of the Mandalorian is that.

Lucas gave us an amazing world and a mythic story, but most Star Wars media since the first two films is just picking at the carcass.

Getting away from Jedi royalty is fine. But maybe not in part VIII of a story involving the Skywalkers. In a trilogy marketed as the Skywalker Saga. Then they killed off the skywalkers. That's just mind boggling levels of stupid IMHO.

Getting away from Skywalkers more a new movie/trilogy/Dianey+ show. Fine concept wrong place poorly executed as a follow up to TFA.

The trilogy could have been salvaged as late as post TFA if they bothered following it up properly.

 

[Zardnaar]

I mean, let's be clear, this is not an "all Gen Xers" issue. It's a small, loud minority. If the shoe doesn't fit, you must acquit! Yourself of being a bad Star Wars fan that is!

But to make the appeal-to-authority/guardianship argument of "I saw it the cinema as a kid", you do necessarily have to be a Gen Xer. And that's what the person I was replying to did.

And it's only certain Gen Xers who have "made the double" here, in being both outraged by the Prequel trilogy and outraged by the Sequel trilogy. It's also been pretty funny to see that, as the PT was gradually rehabilitated by younger Millennials and Filoni (himself just barely Gen-X), that a lot of the exact people who had been saying it was "the end of Star Wars" suddenly didn't think it was that bad.

But point taken, and apologies to the majority of Gen-Xers who aren't being like that (like @Ryujin and yourself).

To be fair, that's because Disney fired Trevorrow (exactly why remains unclear), and then Abrams had to scramble like hell to get a third movie together on short notice, so presumably wasn't exactly going with the best material.

But Filoni and others have been pretty aggressive in recanonizing certain elements of the EU.

Just not the really, really dumb ones, like the Sun Crusher. I don't even know if Abrams knew the Star Wars EU well enough to steal these elements, or if someone just suggested them to him.

I feel like Lucas would actually disagree with you. I think thought you could have your cake and eat it there, and I think the Prequel trilogy attempting to both make things have both potentially scientific explanations and fantastical ones (midichlorians + virgin birth, for example), is a good demonstration.

But really, that horse bolted some time in the 1980s. WEG Star Wars, for example, is very closely aligned with Andor in how it sees the Star Wars world, as are a number of the 1980s EU books (including the Han Solo ones that I read).

Might Andor have been even better as a Blake's 7 reboot? Maybe, but it worked in Star Wars, and to suggest it didn't is basically to say WEG Star Wars didn't work, and that, my friend, is real heresy.

WEG Star Wars basically laid the foundation of the EU and the Star Wars revival to begin with.

They gave WEG EU material to Zahn who essentially resurrected Star Wars. And now a lot of that material is turning up in Disney SW.

 

[Ryujin]

But point taken, and apologies to the majority of Gen-Xers who aren't being like that (like @Ryujin and yourself).

Technically I'm (tail end) Boomer, so I get even more abuse, but thanks for that.

 

[pukunui]

One thing I really liked from Rise was the “I am all of the Sith” idea. The idea being that when the apprentice inevitably betrays and kills their master, they absorb the master’s life force and that of all the Sith who came before.

 

[Ryujin]

You definitely have a point. Starting Anakin out as a helpful moppet and turning him into a genocidal serial killer of epic proportions is a quite a slog. That Dark Side of the Force must be one helluva drug.

Think about having a power that only gets stronger, each time you use it. Then think about being the lowest of the low, on the social pecking order, pretty much stepped on by all. The more you use it, the harder it would become to NOT use it. You could erase your problems with a thought and punish all those who abused you. Yup, a hell of a drug.

 

[Zardnaar]

One thing I really liked from Rise was the “I am all of the Sith” idea. The idea being that when the apprentice inevitably betrays and kills their master, they absorb the master’s life force and that of all the Sith who came before.

Bit to Highlander for me seem even mire suicidal than normal rule of two. I'm not really a Rule of Two fan tbh.

Hopefully they can somewhat salvage the SzY. Daisy had the acting chops for it especially compared to Luke/Anakin.

IDK if Jedi masters work as protagonists though.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yeah, well, you wanna Godwin this discussion, I'm not going to engage with that.

That wasn't my point. Substitute horrible people of your choice. They shouldn't be the protagonist of a trilogy, especially in the hands of an OK-at-best writer.