D&D 5E Thunder / Lightning Mage?

[Jaappleton]

I've the idea for a character, but don't quite know how to go about it.

I'd like to be a Dragonborn. But we roll stats, so I'm not locked into a Charisma based character.

I've seen the Storm Sorcerer, the Tempest Cleric, the Lightning and Thunder Dragon Sorcerers... But I don't know which would make for the most effective caster.

Clerics have only one melee attack, and no Lightning or Thunder based cantrip. And no way to regenerate spell slots, but have an excellent Channel Divinity.

Dragon Sorcerers are locked into one damage type, as opposed to both Thunder and Lightning, but get to add their Modifier to their damage.

Storm Sorcerers get a roundabout way to do a little extra damage, but no extra damage on cantrips.

I'd be starting around level eight. What do you think is the best way to go?

 

[Coyote81]

Paladin 2 Dragon Sorc 6 would probably make for a great thunder and lightning character that can handle itself in combat as well.

Paladin 2 gets you smiting with your spell slots, as well as a BA spell Thunderous Smite. Fighting Style, heavy armor and martial weapons. (Later you can get your level 3 and take an Oath, I recommend Oath of Ancients to a nice theme.)

Sorcerer has access to elemental evil(EE) spells and some of the new SCAG melee spells, like booming blade. From EE you can get Thunderclap for a nice AOE cantrip, and some higher level lighting spells. From the handbook, shocking grasp, shield (It could cause sparks and storm sounds when you use it to prevent being hit, thematically) Chromatic Orb can be a Lightning Orb. At 3rd level spells you get lightning bolt, and sleet storm, both potential effective spells.

 

[Kithas]

I love this archetype! I'm playing one in an upcoming game.
Here's what I see each class giving you(alphabetically); (your list was good but I think you missed some important ones)

Cleric (tempest)
Heavy Armor Proficiency
For free even when multiclassing, big stuff if you plan on being up-close.

Spells
Thunderwave
Shatter
*Call Lightning
*Devastation Wave

*=exclusive to this class for this discussion.

Channel Divinity
Maximizing damage on an aoe spell is just bonkers, it honestly feels like cheating. At level 6 you get to do this 2 times a short rest!
Wrath of the Storm
A nice reaction to do some decent damage in either thunder or lightning.
Thunderbolt Strike
Free knockback for all you lightning damage! No save at all and it doesn't even have to be a spell!


Sorceror
[Saves]
Con Saves!!! By far the reason to start in sorc if you plan to multiclass into it at all, Con save proficiency is so valuable a lot of mages take Resilient to get it and you can start with it for free!

Metamagic
Quickened is amazing, heightened and empowered really hurt, careful is really nice for your allies as a lot of your stuff is AoE.

Spells
*Shocking Grasp, *Thunderclap, *Lightning Lure
Thunderwave, *Witch Bolt
*Lightning Bolt, Shatter
*Fly
*Storm Sphere
*Chain Lightning

Dragon-origin
Extra Health and natural armor
13+dex and +1hp/level is fantastic and definitely shouldn't be overlooked. That said it is only for sorc levels and the armor only really helps if you have a high dex.

elemental damage
The real reason we are considering this class; 3-5 damage per spell. They have clarified that even if this hits more than once it will only add the damage once. This is relevant for Storm Sphere, Witch Bolt, and Call Lightning, overall a good ability but is reliant on your cha.


Storm Sorceror
Free flying
A bonus action for 10' with no OA's is wonderful, usually that means disengage+extra movement.
Heart of the Storm
This can do 3-5 damage, to everyone you choose within 10' of you. That could be everyone you hit with that Thunderwave, or it can be people you couldn't hit. Generally if you are getting in the mix as a storm mage then this will do just as much, if not more damage than the draconic origin feature. It's also Lightning Damage! Which means if you have Thunderbolt strike you get to push them 10' no questions asked(neither has a to-hit or a save).

Wrath's Big brother
It is a looong way in at 14 but you get an excellent reaction, lightning damage=your sorcerer level. So 14-20 damage as a reaction, at base that's the same as 2d8+5 on average, and much more consistent.


Things to Consider
Unless it is a really hard-coded character reason I see no reason to use a melee weapon at all. Shocking grasp will easily out-damage melee weapons for you because of no extra attack, and often thunderclap will do even more than that.

Your role;
Are you a tank? are you a blaster? both? something in between? There are definitely ways in this shell to be near impossible to kill while still dealing massive amounts of damage back(this is the route I plan on going).

MAD;
If you are using a weapon/ wearing heavy armor and not being a hill-dwarf you are going to need a decent str.
If you don't want to die/lose concentration you need a good con.
Your damage will come from cha/wis or both.
that's a possible 4 stats you need to be decent, that is going to be really hard.
Dragonborn gives you some str and cha, so as long as you have a spare 13 you are ok on str(15 means no slow-down in plate).
Wis is important for cleric but not back-breaking at a +3 so 16 would be just fine.
Cha is where a lot of your damage comes from in the form of cantrips and spells so you are going to want to max this out, or at least get to a +4.
Con, this is where you have a choice, personally I am maxing this first, I'm going front-line and need the health and concentration to stay alive and keep blasting face. If you can find a way to avoid damage feel free to do lower, a +3 would be the minimum imo though, losing concentration sucks.


Personally the best in my opinion is either 14/6 or 11/9 Storm sorc/temp cleric.
You get the crazy thunderbolt strike/heart of the storm combo. You get heavy armor and max damage from cleric really early and going only 6 in you get 2 channel divinities and only miss out on Devastating Wave, which is good but I'm not sure it outweighs the reaction from sorc. You also get the wonderful saves and metamagic from sorc, you get cantrips so you can ignore melee weapons and some really nifty flight. I also think tanky is the way to go, you have heavy armor, shields and a good con, that's all you need to be a pain in the butt to kill, add on Shield and Blur if you really want to and you'll be a DM headache in no time.

If I was playing your character I would do 6/2 Sorc(storm)/cleric, level 1 in sorc, and go 7/2 next level so that you get Storm sphere asap, it's a big deal. This will keep you close to par on spells-known too, after 9 I recommend getting to 6 in cleric for thunderbolt and call-lighting, by 13 7/6 would be my goal.

That said this is your beast, I hope the information I added helps your decisions!

 

[faria]

If Tempest Cleric had access to any "spell attack" Thunder/Lightning spells (as opposed to just "DEX save" spells), then you could go Tempest Cleric X/Assassin Rogue 3 for some nice Assassinate+Channel Divinity combos. Unfortunately, Tempest Cleric kinda gets shafted when it comes to that. =/

If you go Lightning Dragon Sorcerer X/Assassin Rogue 3/Tempest Cleric 2 though, not only can you now Assassinate+Channel Divinity Chromatic Orb for some insane surprise round damage, but you also get access to some nice Metamagic too. It's a little bit Munchkin, but it's a solid and powerful character build.

You could justify the Rogue and Tempest cleric levels by taking a Pirate background. Pirates are thieves and scoundrels, and they pray to the gods for clear skies while on their ship. A Lightning sorcerer pirate (with 2 appropriate class dips) sounds like a hella fun character to play!

EDIT: Or you could drop the 2 Cleric levels and go straight Sorcerer/Rogue. You'd lose out on Channel Divinity, but it's less munchkin and you wouldn't fall so far behind the group on your Sorcerer. I'd go Sorc to 3, Rogue to 3, then straight Sorc after that.

 

[Jaappleton]

Someone did the math on that, the Rogue/Tempest/Sorcerer. I think it was actually Mike Fehlauer from Penny Arcade. My using the CD with Surprise, and then doing it again with an Empowered Quicken (pre-errata), you can basically one-shot Tiamat (of course, Legendary Actions prevent it from actually working). But it was crazy.

 

[faria]

Someone did the math on that, the Rogue/Tempest/Sorcerer. I think it was actually Mike Fehlauer from Penny Arcade. My using the CD with Surprise, and then doing it again with an Empowered Quicken (pre-errata), you can basically one-shot Tiamat (of course, Legendary Actions prevent it from actually working). But it was crazy.

That someone was me. =]

Here's the thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?465165-How-to-deal-500-damage-(average)-in-one-round

 

[Jaappleton]

Ah,my apologies for miscrediting it! Though it seems Mike was the last post there, hence my confusion. A good find, that's a damn crazy combo!

 

[faria]

If you don't want to munchkin with multiple class dips, I recommend one of these:

Lightning Dragon Sorcerer X/Rogue 3

Lightning Dragon Sorcerer X/Cleric 2

They both have good benefits. Rogue gets you surprise round burst damage, Cunning Action, and Expertise (Sneak Attack too but it's useless). Cleric gets you heavy armor proficiency and more spells and slots. You can't really go wrong with either, but it depends on your DM. If you don't think you'll have a lot of surprise rounds then stick to cleric. If your DM doesn't let you take short rests often, stick to rogue. Or you could, you know, play the character that you want to play in this roleplaying game. Crazy idea, I know.

 

[pdegan2814]

In the most simplistic terms possible, my thinking is this: If you want to be Thor, go for a Tempest Cleric. If you want to be Lord Raiden, go with a Storm Sorcerer.

 

[Kithas]

That someone was me. =]

Here's the thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?465165-How-to-deal-500-damage-(average)-in-one-round

My main issue is that combo doesn't work...
You cannot target the same creature twice with a twinned spell, so that's half your damage gone.
170 damage in one swing is still impressive, but not necessarily better than a plain old lvl 9 Call Lightning, maxed that's 90 damage in an aoe, and I get to do 9d10s
every turn for a while. Or a level 9 storm sphere, 9d6's as a bonus action and 7d6 if they stay in the sphere. Plus whatever I do with my standard action, that could easily out-damage your combo.

For example a level 9 storm sphere strike, action surge a level 8 thunderwave and a level 7, max the first one and empower the second for 9d6+72+8d8+12(heart of the storm) is 160+ with empowering. If the target ends it's turn in the storm that's an extra 7d6 or 24.5 avg damage, and the thunderwaves are both aoe damage, so they can hit multiple targets, add in even one more target and the damage easily outpaces the sneak scenario.