Tomb of Annihilation Is Here - What Do You Think?

Today's the day - WotC's latest Dungeons & Dragons adventure, Tomb of Annihilation, is out! Head on down to your friendly (or unfriendly) local (or not so local) gaming (or comic) store and pick up your copy. Alternatively, if you use a virtual table top, it's available for Fantasy Grounds and Roll20.

 

[CapnZapp]

I’m reading through and I’m not impressed by the large number of DC 10 checks. What is the point of that?

Latest example: Jahaka Anchorage. This secret spot is “protected” by some rocks that require a DC 10 INT check to navigate. And there’s even a buffer if they fail that! And the rocks are submerged so how are they detected in order to be safely navigated?

I don’t understand why they put in a bunch of words and basically let the players auto succeed?

A better option IMHO: a DC 15 perception check to notice worrying patterns in the water warning of submerged rocks. Miss that and a terrible grinding sound is heard alerting the crew to the danger - now the job becomes difficult as the ship will have to be carefully maneuvered out of the rocks - DC 20 (with a buffer as before). If they spot the danger they can (at the expense of some time) choose an easier route through DC 15 (with buffer).

That seems much more engaging?

Exactly.

A secret door with a DC 10 isn't secret, it's just partially obscured.

Even a regular Commoner makes passive DC 10 checks all the time, every time.

Only the village fool and the village drunk could miss such a "secret" door.

I would argue that even DC 15 is a trivial automatic success for any party with veteran players. Making sure at least one party member chooses a high-Wisdom class with Perception proficiency isn't exactly expert play...

Either you need to ditch the rules for passive checks, or you need to enforce the traveling rules, where this party member cannot keep watch in every direction at once.

So yes, any time an adventure specifies a DC 10, that just reveals the designer isn't using the same rules as you or I...

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

The book does make the distinction between a DC10 Wisdom(Perception) check, and something noticed by anyone with a passive perception of 10 or above sometimes I believe. Many parties will have a chance of failing the DC10 check even though they would have practically no chance of missing something requiring 10+ passive perception.

 

[CapnZapp]

The book does make the distinction between a DC10 Wisdom(Perception) check, and something noticed by anyone with a passive perception of 10 or above sometimes I believe. Many parties will have a chance of failing the DC10 check even though they would have practically no chance of missing something requiring 10+ passive perception.

I'm sure you'll concede how wildly inconsistent different modules has been in this regard.

Almost as if the PHB rules could have been written better, so everybody read and used the rules right out the gate already from the start...

 

[robus]

Well, I don't know about you but from the time I've spent on the water, the number one rule is safety and caution. Only a fool would risk it. Even lawful authorities (of which there are none) or merchant princes seeking reparations, would be hard pressed to find a captain willing to take a 50/50 shot at sinking their vessel (remembering that they don't know it takes three hits to sink it, they just think there's a risk of it from whatever is causing the eddies below the surface).

Anyway, it's not like it's hard to change to a higher DC if you think it's warranted. Personally, I've seen PC's fail DC 5 climb checks and fall to their deaths. Not every check has to come with a high chance of failure.

Guess what, I even proposed that in my original post, so yes it isn’t hard. What I was looking for was an explanation as to why the encounter was designed as it was, given the build up. I look at these adventures as design references for how best to create encounters and adventures. When things seem off it confuses me and makes me wonder what the reasoning behind it was...

 

[DEFCON 1]

Exactly.

A secret door with a DC 10 isn't secret, it's just partially obscured.

Even a regular Commoner makes passive DC 10 checks all the time, every time.

Not necessarily. The 1st level of Exhaustion gives Disadvantage on all ability checks, which means that in the case of Passive Perception the PP number drops by 5. So there's always a fairly good chance that if/when someone comes upon a secret door, their PP will have dropped due to Exhaustion to the point that they might not notice them.

You do make a good point though that a DC 10 "secret door" is really more of a partially concealed door if we were to look at the narrative of how the room looks and what exactly makes this door less noticeable. But that's really all up to the DM to describe things. The 5E game no longer makes distinctions between "concealed" doors or "secret" doors or however many variants they identified in the past. All doors that aren't just completely obvious with a frame, a knob, hinges etc. are called "secret doors", regardless of how disguised they may or may not be. And that's where the DC comes in to distinguish the door that is just built into how the wall looks versus the door that is behind a hanging tapestry versus the door that blocked by a bookcase that moves on wheels to reveal it versus the door that has an illusion masking it versus the door that is a magical block with door edges that are practically imperceptible.

Is a DC 10 secret door meant to be a challenge? Perhaps not. Perhaps in normal situations that secret door is actually just a regular door that has several large potted plants in front of it. The "concealed" door as you put it. And ordinarily, yeah, most people will notice it if they enter the room. But, if they happen to be exhausted, or if they are walking by the room and just give a quick glance inside without actually searching it (and the DM just says what is obviously seen)... the DC 10 is just enough to make some people miss it.

Will it be worthwhile to all groups? Nope. But as has always been the case, these adventures are not written under the expectation they will be perfect for all groups, because all groups run the game differently. So they default the adventure to the less experienced player under the expectation that the veteran player can make the exceedingly quick decision to bump up secret door DCs by 5 if they so choose. Because it takes literally less than a second to do so as you come upon them as you read.

 

[CapnZapp]

snip

So many words Defcon when all you needed to say was

"I agree some of the 5e rules make no sense and needs to be changed by most DMs"

It is okay to love 5e and point out its warts, all at the same time.

You really don't need to defend every little choice WotC made, Defcon - especially not the poorer ones. You're still allowed to think 5e is great, like I do.

Just sayin...



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[DEFCON 1]

So many words Defcon when all you needed to say was

"I agree some of the 5e rules make no sense and needs to be changed by most DMs"

It is okay to love 5e and point out its warts, all at the same time.

You really don't need to defend every little choice WotC made, Defcon - especially not the poorer ones. You're still allowed to think 5e is great, like I do.

Just sayin...



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

Why would I need to say it when you've been saying it for all of us repeatedly over and over every chance you've had for the past 3 years?

And truth be told... I don't say it simply because I understand it's expected that I need to change things that don't work for me when I play D&D. I've been changing things in every single edition since I've started 30 years ago because that's how games become my own.

The D&D that I read in the book is not my game. I don't expect it to be. I don't complain when I read it and find it not to be. The D&D that I read in the book is *a* game. But it's not MY game. MY game occurs when I take what is in the book and adjust it, work it, flavor it, balance it, adapt it, stricken it, justify it, and re-write it so that it BECOMES my game. And as that is exactly what I expect D&D to be... why would I waste my time pointing that out to people? Because that's biggest "Well no duh!" I could possibly say.

Instead, I see what the game in the book has written and I talk about how I could adapt it, work it, flavor it, balance it, adjust it, stricken it, justify it and re-write it. But the one thing I'm not going to do is complain about it.

--unless of course we're talking the Barkskin spell. I'll spend pages shouting how much of a piece of sh*t that spells is as written and how Crawford screwed the pooch on his Sage Advice on it. LOL!

 

[robus]

Here's my issue. I don't see the reason for putting exploration stuff in that ends up being a minor speedbump (if it's noticed at all). To me that weakens the exploration pillar unnecessarily.

They created a cool encounter: a pirate bay protected by a hidden barrier of treacherous rocks that will most likely wreck any ships that don't know how to navigate it!

Oooh, cool - I wonder how the PCs might get past this??!!

Oh - it's a single DC 10 Int roll....

 

[CapnZapp]

Here's my issue. I don't see the reason for putting exploration stuff in that ends up being a minor speedbump (if it's noticed at all). To me that weakens the exploration pillar unnecessarily.

They created a cool encounter: a pirate bay protected by a hidden barrier of treacherous rocks that will most likely wreck any ships that don't know how to navigate it!

Oooh, cool - I wonder how the PCs might get past this??!!

Oh - it's a single DC 10 Int roll....

This.


Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[jasper]

how this for realism. Humanoids from non jungle environments must roll a DC 15 Con check per day or become sunburn. Lose 2 hit pts. If failed by 5 gain a level of exhaustion and take 1d6 of damage. Races of the underdark, mountain dwarves, wood elvess and pc with artic backgrounds roll with disadvantage