Tome of Magic

Andor

First Post
I think TOM integrates a lot more easliy that Incarnum. It's also worth noteing that the three magic systems in the book are unrelated, you can choose to use 1,2, or all 3 of them.

WRT the systems, I love Binders, just a cool, cool class. Probably actually a notch behind Incarnum users powerwise, but way more flavorful.

Shadowcasters have been addressed elsewhere, but I'll add that the Shadowmagic section has some of the coolest Prestige Classes around IMHO.

Truenamers.... I've never seen them in play so I honestly don't know but the system doesn't feel right to me.
 

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FrostedMini1337

First Post
your comments are heartening.

Is there an abundance(or at least more than normal) fluffl? I saw some pictures for the binding circles and it looked liked each of them had good backstory to it. Good roleplaying bits?
 

Pants

First Post
FrostedMini1337 said:
your comments are heartening.

Is there an abundance(or at least more than normal) fluffl? I saw some pictures for the binding circles and it looked liked each of them had good backstory to it. Good roleplaying bits?
Lotsa good stuff, each section of the book has a good ratio of fluff vs crunch, though imo the binder section has the most fluff with the shadow magic section the 'least'.
 

airwalkrr

Adventurer
Typically, the three magic forms rate like this in popularity:
1) pact magic
2) shadow magic
3) truename magic

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that the reason for this is because pact magic seems like it is the most powerful and truename magic seems like it is the least powerful. I believe the reason for this perception is because pact magic gives your character a lot of static bonuses that your character can "walk around with," much like the cleric can walk around with hour/level and 10 min/level effects like freedom of movement, death ward, magic vestment, greater magic weapon, etc. The more effects you can pile onto your character the higher the perceived effectiveness.

Shadow magic on the other hand is utility magic. The shadowcaster doesn't "cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down." He casts spells that immobilize or hinder enemies and overcome trials. In that respect he is like an enchanter or illusionist specialist wizard who has prohibited evocation and necromancy. Not a lot of death happening, but a remarkably useful character. He has a lot of tricks up his sleeve that make otherwise challenging situations a piece of cake. For that reason, he is well-liked.

The truenamer is the red-headed step-child of the bunch because of that ever so touchy subject of the DCs that scale with CR. This means that a truenamer's spells are always going to be challenging to cast unless he is casting them on low-CR opponents. The truenamer is every bit as powerful as the others, however, his magic is not as constant/long-lasting as the binder's and not as reliable as the shadowcaster's. D&D gamers (especially 3e gamers) by and large (i.e. most, but not all, so don't accuse me of applying this to everyone) like effects that are simple, reliable, and effective. That is why magic missile is perhaps the most popular spell in the game. There is no save, and force effects can damage anyone. Many of the truenamer's spells are typically simple and VERY effective. But they are not reliable, because there is virtually no way a truenamer can ever have his truespeak skill high enough to succeed on a truespeak check without the chance of failure. Strategic thinkers, like many gamers are, do not like this aspect of unreliability. Many of them probably dream of '1' filled nights where they never get a spell off because they can't roll worth a damn.

Perhaps I'm totally off the mark here. Perhaps not. Given the complaints I have heard and the directions they point, I think I am at least pretty close to the reasons for why people don't like truename magic in general. However, the bottom line is that truename magic is balanced by this random factor. If it weren't for that factor, then truename magic would be way too powerful. Wizards have to budget their spells for the day. Truenamers have no such limit (though the laws of resistance can make things cumbersome). But they aren't as reliable as wizards. That is not a bad thing though. It simply adds an element of randomness into the game and that doesn't mean it is less fun unless the only reason you play the game is to "win."

Anyway, that's all I really have to say on the matter. I'll try to abstain from saying more as it would probably be simply a regurgitation of my points here.
 

Staffan

Legend
airwalkrr said:
The truenamer is the red-headed step-child of the bunch because of that ever so touchy subject of the DCs that scale with CR.
The problem isn't that the DCs scale with CR. Other spellcasters have that too, except it's monster saves that sort of scale.

No, the problem is that DCs scale twice as fast as CR. That means that for every rank the truenamer puts into his Truespeech skill, the DC goes up by 2, but then you get the occasional skill boosting item to catch up.

A comparison: a level 1 truenamer has a bonus of +10 (4 ranks, +3 for stat 16, +3 skill focus) and is going against an average DC of 17. He needs a 7 or better to succeed. A 20th level pretty much maxed truenamer has a bonus of +44 (23 ranks, +8 for stat 27 (+5 level, +6 item), +3 skill focus, +10 item) and is going up against an average DC of 55. He needs an 11 or better.

Hmm. That wasn't really as bad as I thought it would be, but I still think the mechanic is flawed. I think it would have been better as a level check (plus half your non-truenamer levels) vs 10+CR. That would make it 50/50 against equal-level opponents.
 

I'm playing a binder, and having great fun.

I have completely "de-optimised" the character in order to make the most of its amazing versatility. I'm also trying out each of the vestiges (albeit in the order I think they will be of most benefit to me). I'm looking on it as a rare opportunity to experiment.

The character isn't very powerful (although he's only 4th level at the moment) but that doesn't matter as the players and the DM don't have a clue what he's going to do next so they think he's more powerful than he actually is.

It does help if you are familiar with the vestiges' requirements.

For example, one of them requires you to be able to speak giant. With Int 14 I had two bonus languges at first level, but didn't realise giant would be a good choice. I've now had to spend some skill points on speak language instead, which was bad planning on my part.

Of course, you can always take the Ignore Special Requirements feat, but where's the fun in that?

I like pact magic so much I've barely glanced at the other two classes. I'm glad to see a bit of support for the Truenamer in this thread; might encourage me to take a look.
 

JustaPlayer

First Post
airwalkrr said:
The only problem with the truenamer is that it is a balanced class.
No the only problem with the truenamer is that it requires you to have magic item x, y, and z or it is useless. And it also uses a meta mechanic that many times just isn't in the ball park anyway.
 

Tetsubo

First Post
JustaPlayer said:
No the only problem with the truenamer is that it requires you to have magic item x, y, and z or it is useless. And it also uses a meta mechanic that many times just isn't in the ball park anyway.

I think that is my biggest gripe with the Truenamer, it REQUIRES magic items at higher levels. I know that most (heck maybe ALL) characters have magic items at high levels that help their core abilities. But they don't seem to NEED them in the same way that a Truenamer does.

I'm not playing or GMing a Truenamer at the moment. But I think the DC levels need a serious rework...
 

wayne62682

First Post
Vocenoctum said:
Incarnum is a bit obvious, so I can see it, but Pact Magic IMO is actually better off not integrated too much. It preserves the neatness of the class if normal folks don't know what you're doing.

Hmm, perhaps.. never thought of it that way.. I guess that could work as well.. what I meant is a line similar to Incarnum's about the Soulborn (I think?), that it gets old/boring if you're the only person in the world who can use it. My group tends not to like new supplements, so if I were to use it I'd probably end up the only Binder on Faerun..

Still, you may have just convinced me to make my next character a Binder.
 

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