Too many vampires

James V

First Post
This is how I look at it, lets say, Ariel decides that I'm one her best friends, but, in order to survive she has to kill me...its almost a battle of truth and logic, True she has to kill me to stay alive, Logically she needs th stay alive, and has other targets she could choose from, but she decides to kill me, because she's starvin...well Ariel goes about, and then kills me. A mind's nature is of two things, Truth or Logic, Truthfully your either thinking Ariel is a hero and she should be awarded, or your thinking she's evil for murder, because of the extreme situation, there isn't any middle ground, and caring less in this topic would mean you are quite dumb because there is some one killing their own friends on the loose, so you should choose there, now...logically speaking, she has to do this...doesn't want to, but HAS TO, in order to survive, how can we find common ground here between evil, well its a point of view, is the act they do evil, or is it in their nature to do the evil act...like Than for instances goes to an AA meeting with a pitcher of ale, and sits next to Bhryn who is trying to sober up on the wagon, Than could be so addicted, that he NEEDS the ale. Bhryn then well..Bhryn would throw a mug at his face, but...Bhryn is trying so hard to get sober, when she sees that ale, she suddenly craves alcohol, so now your left with two choices, Did Than intentionally commit the act in an evil manner, or is it simply an act of nature that is considered Evil...I would like to note, Than is not a drunk to the best of my know how...and Ariel, well, Ariel will probably kill me when she reads this :)
 

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Actually. *steps in, holding up a finger* I believe the oldest played vampire around was Lady Vampire, who had been playing her character for over 10 years, predating even me in the tavern.
 

Merto

First Post
Neo_CorpseReliver said:
Actually. *steps in, holding up a finger* I believe the oldest played vampire around was Lady Vampire, who had been playing her character for over 10 years, predating even me in the tavern.

I said we are SOME OF the oldest... not THE oldest
 


Ruthia

First Post
So all I'm really getting out of this is a very strong feeling that anything I say is way wrong and way off course because I think differntly then people older and wiser then me........Well alright I'm cool with being wrong I suppose. Not the first time and won't be the last.*shrugs*

Back to the orginal point of this thread. Yeah there have been a lot of vampires lately. THough I'm now left to wonder how many are just because they were told "No you can't do that" and how many are part of the "groups" that spring up and ultimately fail due to the nature of this chat site and how many are "Well I saw it on TV and this looked cool".

hmmm, should start a poll then. Least then you'd know what factor effected what.
 

James V

First Post
Ruthia said:
So all I'm really getting out of this is a very strong feeling that anything I say is way wrong and way off course because I think differntly then people older and wiser then me........Well alright I'm cool with being wrong I suppose. Not the first time and won't be the last.*shrugs*

Nay your right, I'm right, everyone is right, tecnhiqually Vampires ARE EVIL, now enworld is based semi dnd, semi free form, but in all honesty, to be quite frank its mostly free form rp with us palyers control, using DnD as a loose base of rules and regulations, The question really is, does your character consider a vampire evil, Not do you, I think this arguements answer may ly very well in the twisted brain of what ever characters anyone here plays, do they consider them evil, To me, they serve a purpose, to James, aslong as he isn't bothered by 'em they're no problem with him.
 

Warbridge

First Post
Neo_CorpseReliver said:
Actually. *steps in, holding up a finger* I believe the oldest played vampire around was Lady Vampire, who had been playing her character for over 10 years, predating even me in the tavern.

You sir are correct, that is a long run.

Now if we can find someone that predates me I wouldn't feel so damn old. :D



The problem with looking at the morality of vampires as the litmus for good or evil is that there are plenty of apologist arguments for what they do to live. We don't walk in their shoes, so we can't understand their circumstances we can only weigh them based on our own moral compass. The analogy of being truly hungry and needing to do something deplorable to survive is a good one. Thankfully I have not had to do that myself, but we could look at different groups which have been forced into similar predicaments: the soccer team that crashed in the mountains forced to eat the bodies of their friends who died, or the Donner party are good examples. Are they evil? No, they just did what they needed to to survive. They did not eat the living though. That's where the litmus paper turns a bright vivid color. Take another semi-real world example, if a person commits murder and theft then claims they were starving in front of the jury, they will still go to prison. Imagine what happens if they killed the victim and ate them instead of stealing food.

It's true there are some vampires that will avoid taking life, and that's commendable given their circumstances. They are the exception though, not the rule. To the less conscientious vampires, people are simply food. They look at us like we look at a cow when we're hungry. Oh look, steak on the hoof! There's your lesson on nature: they are the top predator of the food chain in that dynamic instead of us. Whoever is at the top of the foodchain generally get carte blanche on the moral issues; it's exactly what we do to justify how we treat animals raied for foodstock or killed for fur or other commercial reasons.

No worries, Ruthia. No one's out to get you. We're just having a friendly debate about good and evil in a fantasy game. Have your opinion and stick to your crossbows or whatever you favor. Personally, I remain steadfastly against the dead killing the living. It sets a bad precendent: there are more of them than there are of us and being outnumbered is trouble we don't want. Mostly I just despise the undead...and boy bands...stupid people...work...

Think of me as an equal opportunity despiser.
 

Ruthia

First Post
Warbridge said:
.

No worries, Ruthia. No one's out to get you. We're just having a friendly debate about good and evil in a fantasy game. Have your opinion and stick to your crossbows or whatever you favor.


*chuckles* Never thought anyone was out to "get me". Just saying I was cool with being wrong. Honestly I have a reputation for being wrong. Hells When I first started RPing you should have see how many "You can't play a dragon That way" PM's I got when I introduced Ruthia and gang. Pern Dragons have NO D&D status once so ever And a lot of people couldn't grasp that it the whole race IS considered nuetral. Lot of fun arguements both IC and OOC about that....Specially when people tried recruiting her for the "freedom" of other dragons. Ru just never saw any point in that one. *chuckles* good times really.

Thats probaly why I have the view point I do on vampires honestly. To me, their is no "evil" people. Only evil deeds. And besides, whats so evil about a vampire, or a group of vampires or whatever that give the public "Notice" that their around? TO me to be Evil you have to have the right amount of sneaky involved too....and I don't see that at all lately. Everyone wants to play the "In your face" Villians.....which ultimately get ignored or laughed at.
 

Drindin

First Post
I.... can't.... must... not... *gargle, choke*


I hate vampires. There, i said it. I hate vampires.

Not for the reasons many of you are bringing up though. Do vampires have to be evil? Like has been mentioned, if you're doing it DND-style, short answer is: yes.

But, as many alleged 'classics' of literature have shown in recent years, they don't -have- to be Culturally.

Fact is, though, good vampires make me angry. They're so.... mopey and morally troubled and "oh woe is me! I must fight these urges!" and -ugh-. I can't -stand- it.

Even the evil vampires are just all "Nyah nyah! I vant to suck your blood!"

maybe it's just my being inundated by stereotypical 1000 year old vampires named "Morpheus", or maybe it's because one can only handle so many "Angel" clones or clones of those Anne Rice folks.

that said, I also hate zombies, but I won't go there.

That's why I enjoyed 30 days of night so much. There were some vampires! Ruthless animalistic killing machines that didn't even want to create spawn, because in doing so they would threaten their already lacking food source, namely a small arctic community in Alaska. That's a vampire I could handle. More like ghouls than vampires, really. Wasn't even a clean double-pinprick bite, it was more like a "I'm going to tear out your throat and lap at the sweet, sticky juices within whilst reveling in the horrified screams of your nearby family"

-Thats- a vampire.

Anyways, I digress. I think the one thing we can learn from this is: No one is right, no one is wrong. But what we can say is this: The imagination is a great thing. Sure, this site was originally based loosely on DND, but it has since then deviated greatly. You can never completely divorce it from DND, no. But that's only because so much of the worlds created within were created for settings that were made for DND, and the bulk of fantasy conisseurs have at one time indulged in that most famous of Past-times that has been around since the 70s. Even if the site was not expressley based on the game, it would still have to deal with people who say "dragons can't do that" or "vampires are EEEVILLL!"

In order to discuss the morality of a vampire, one has to assume Absolute Morality. As a Christian, i obviously believe in Absolute Morality, and am of the camp that "vampires are expressley evil". But western culture has largely been growing to the theory of Relative Morality. To us, vampires are evil. Using logic, If Vampires are not always evil if Morality is Relative, and to Vampires their actions are necessary, if grim. Assuming absolute morality, torturing and killing a creature is an expressley evil act, and Vampires must torture and kill for it is their nature, and they are therefore evil.

Culturaly speaking, vampires started out representing evil. They represented the souls of damned individuals (often murderers or suicide victims {who were considered evil, yes}) who were buried in hallowed ground.

But in modern culture, Vampires have come to serve as a representation for a whole host of things. For our own unexplored lust, to the dark and mysterious, to the blood-thirsty and free side of human experience. To go around saying that "Vampires must be this way" or "Vampires must be that way" is like saying "People must be this way" or "people must be that way" or "this line of symbolic composition can only mean this, it will not change with the times, it will not mean something different to a different individual". Lots of people think that way, that doesn't mean they're -right-.

Role Playing is a form of literature. Crude and unpolished, but it is a form of literature. It is way for us to explore our own psyches, to explore the fantastical worlds we wish we could live in, and to act as a creative outlet for people who may not have another outlet. Its a way for us to be something that we could never be in real life, and if that means you want to play a Vampiric Paladin with a vendetta against his own kind and carries a jar of pigs-blood around to feast on when his urges over take him, go for it. But don't expect everyone to agree with it, and in fact expect a lot of opposition from people like me, the Old Guard of the Absolute Moralists.

... Okay, I'm done now.
 

Akea

First Post
Drindin said:
Fact is, though, good vampires make me angry. They're so.... mopey and morally troubled and "oh woe is me! I must fight these urges!" and -ugh-. I can't -stand- it.

Even the evil vampires are just all "Nyah nyah! I vant to suck your blood!"


O.O

... You obviously haven't met Jazzmyn yet then. Maybe she's then classified as a really badly played vampire, but uh, that will never make me change her into a mopey cry-baby (to which she has deliberately quoted those that fall into that category as pathetic) or stuck on the mortal plain for one purpose, to feed and live endlessly. Unlive, what have you. Just had to raise my hand, that's all.

*goes back to being quiet*
 

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